Cameron get's his reduction in the EU budget.

Graham_Devon

Moby wrote: »

Is this an objective analysis or more accurately a belief that whatever Posh boy did or didn't do would be hailed as a success by you because you are a right wing tory type;)
Pointless thread started by someone who complains about others starting such threads....so much hypocrisy

No, not really.

Firstly, this is a big news item. You'd expect it to be talked about.

Secondly, it undermines every piece of nonsense we've heard on here about how it will be impossible for Cameron to do this....how we need the EU more than they need us.

Infact, it wipes out every single argument you have made in the last month on here.

First a referendum. Now a reduction in the EU budget.

At this rate, if Cameron keeps doing the fantastic work he's doing on the EU, we'll be able to comfortably stay in the EU with better terms. What's not to like here?

MS1950

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Well let's hope they vote it down, by god, Cameron can't be seen to have cracked this nut.

Are people seriously looking for any morsal of hope that he may fail? Still?

#

As I said in my post above "The leader of the Conservative group of MEPs ...said on Radio 5 that he expects it to be defeated in the European Parliament". I was surprised as his party leader was claiming a great victory - and he may have said it to 'talk down' the chances of it passing so that another victory can be claimed if it passes?

I don't know - but it wasn't "people...looking for any morsal of hope that he may fail" who said it but the leader of Cameron's MEPs?

He also said that the Parliament has already agreed that the vote will be secret to avoid MEPs coming under pressure from their constituents and national governments.

Graham_Devon

MS1950 wrote: »

#

As I said in my post above "The leader of the Conservative group of MEPs ...said on Radio 5 that he expects it to be defeated in the European Parliament". I was surprised as his party leader was claiming a great victory - and he may have said it to 'talk down' the chances of it passing so that another victory can be claimed if it passes?

I don't know - but it wasn't "people...looking for any morsal of hope that he may fail" who said it but the leader of Cameron's MEPs?

He also said that the Parliament has already agreed that the vote will be secret to avoid MEPs coming under pressure from their constituents and national governments.

That's all lovely.

But absolutely nothing to do with Cameron and what he was able to achieve. This would always have been the case. So what would you prefer? He gave up at the start? If he'd done so and sighted these reasons, you'd be lambasting him as spineless.

Cameron really can't win and were back to a situation of damed if he does, damned if he doesnt.

All this shows the bitterness involved when it comes to Cameron getting what he said, against all the odds.

You simply cannot use what you are using to take anything away from Cameron. Thats the process in place. He got what he said he wwas going in to get. Infact, he got beter, so surely he's due some respect, without having to lean on internal EU, completely undemocratic processes in the vain hope that it puts a block on things, purly so you don't have to admit cameron did his best for the country.

It's this sort of politics that I cannot stand. How can people possibly want undemocratic processes to damn what the prime minister has done for us here, which benefits every single one of us, all in the name of hoping you can label him as "failed".

Generali

I often disagree with what you post on here Graham_Devon but you are spot on here.

Jennifer_Jane

I would rather hold my congratulations until we see what happens with the veto. How is Hollande perceived these days in France? I imagine not in a good light, although the French may be quite heartened by Depardieu and Bardot becoming Russian (or threatening to).

So, despite the French receiving wonderful agricultural subsidies, they have been getting meat from Romania to make up lasagne for Sweden, Germany, Norway, UK, etc etc. You couldn't make it up!

Who knew that cheap ready meals were cooked up in France, and who knew they were so popular all over Europe?

Anyway, congratulations to Cameron so far, but will wait for further news.

Re Moby's point, I thought the EEC was not allowing Countries to join unless they met EEC standards. Now it seems anyone can join, and it's up to the "richer" countries to subsidise them. Unsure if we can afford that any longer.

Thrugelmir

Moby wrote: »

You see this is where people who just see things in purely financial terms don't understand what is happening in Europe.
This is not just a commercial/trade project. It is a political, social project...until you see that you will not get it.

Financial management is real. Projects are experiments.

See what's happening?

I see people on the streets in open protest against the squeeze on their personal standard of living. I see the growing rise of Nationalism in Greece allied with open anti German sentiment. I have friends in Hamburg (both East and West Germans) so there take as an opposing view is very informative.

Your views are extremely narrow. Hardly the kind that's required to bring together millions of people across Europe in unity. Constant references to Posh boys. Suggests you are going to struggle to make friends in Europe with conflicting political opinions.

MS1950

Graham_Devon wrote: »

That's all lovely.

But absolutely nothing to do with Cameron and what he was able to achieve. This would always have been the case. So what would you prefer? He gave up at the start? If he'd done so and sighted these reasons, you'd be lambasting him as spineless.

Cameron really can't win and were back to a situation of damed if he does, damned if he doesnt.

All this shows the bitterness involved when it comes to Cameron getting what he said, against all the odds.

You simply cannot use what you are using to take anything away from Cameron. Thats the process in place. He got what he said he wwas going in to get. Infact, he got beter, so surely he's due some respect, without having to lean on internal EU, completely undemocratic processes in the vain hope that it puts a block on things, purly so you don't have to admit cameron did his best for the country.

It's this sort of politics that I cannot stand. How can people possibly want undemocratic processes to damn what the prime minister has done for us here, which benefits every single one of us, all in the name of hoping you can label him as "failed".

What an intemperate tirade.

On what basis do you suggest that I would prefer that “He gave up at the start” so that I could “ lambast… him as spineless” or “show…bitterness involved when it comes to Cameron getting what he said” or “use what [I am] using to take anything away from Cameron”. Or that justifies suggesting that what I said is the “sort of politics that [you] cannot stand”. Or that I “want undemocratic processes to damn what the prime minister has done for us here….in the name of hoping can label him as "failed"”.

Read my two posts again. I was reporting what I found to be surprising – that "The leader of the Conservative group of MEPs ...said on Radio 5 that he expects it to be defeated in the European Parliament" – surprised in what he said, when he said it (just after the announcement of the budget agreement), and the matter of fact way he said it.

It was not said as some sort of call to arms to stop ‘jonny foreigner’ conspiring to snatch back ‘our’ victory – but as what seemed to be a sober assessment that the Parliament would almost certainly defeat the budget agreement.

And as for “want[ing] undemocratic processes to damn what the prime minister has done” – again I was simply reporting what the leader of the Conservative group of MEPs said - that the Parliament has already agreed that the vote will be secret to avoid MEPs coming under pressure from their constituents and national governments.

And for the record one of my (many) reservations about the EU is what is usually refered to as its ‘democratic deficit’ – it’s unaccountability to a proper electorate.

I’m aware that you are a long time member of the little ‘club’ on this sub-forum that seems to enjoy knocking spots of each other – whether justified or not. But I’d be grateful if you would read and reasonably respond to what I (and others) say, rather than attacking what you think might be their motives.

2010

Cameron gets his reduction in the EU budget for the UK but we still pay more.
A bit of a contradiction there!!!

If it`s such a great deal put it to a referendum now instead of 2018 (maybe)

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Graham_Devon wrote: »

That's all lovely.
without having to lean on internal EU, completely undemocratic processes .

Without taking a side on the issue of whether or not the budget will pass through the European Parliament or not....

How can you possibly describe a vote in parliament as "completely undemocratic"?

Surely it's the opposite?

The very definition of democracy.

Graham_Devon

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Without taking a side on the issue of whether or not the budget will pass through the European Parliament or not....

How can you possibly describe a vote in parliament as "completely undemocratic"?

Surely it's the opposite?

The very definition of democracy.

The definition of democracy being secret voting by those in power? Secret voting allowing any kind of deals to be done with no comeback? Secret voting, meaning we cannot see who voted for what, or even why they voted?

Might be your definition, but it aint mine.