Green Deal MSE Guide Discussion

JohnO2013

mammykerr wrote: »

Hi

Just thought i'd let people know i've had a green deal assessment done by british gas, i booked it before a lot of the information came out as i was hoping it would be a great way to get my windows done.

The assessment was a very basic EPC and did not say anything else, i already had an epc from september so was not impressed. he went away and is sending me a report within 28 days but there was no hard sell whatsoever.

I explained i was interested in new windows and maybe the solar thermal water, he made a note of this and said information would be in my report.

What he did say was with windows only saving 10% you could probably not get them fully on green deal because of the golden rule and would need to pay some money initially to qualify for golden rule savings, this could be what a previous poster interpreted or was informed was a deposit.

I was hoping he'd try to push me to get things with cashback and get info re ECO but no information on it, i think having to pay 99.00 was a lot to them wait 28 days for a report but i suppose its a means to an end as i may still want to get new windows. i know i could get these cheaper on credit but i want to get a new car with a credit card and planning on an extension next year so i'm still in two minds. Not planning on moving but thinking if i got up to 15 year loan the repayment charges would not apply.

I will let you know when i get my report.

Can I suggest that you consider Photovoltaics instead of solar water heating. It may be double the cost, but the typical savings, together with FIT, make it much more attractive.

Me_fishy_u_chippie

sashman wrote: »

Nationwide has just launched their alternative, looks like you can get MUCH lower rates for GD projects, with out the complications!

sashman

Thanks for this post Sashman - good to see this forum actually posting "moneysavingtips" for everyone to share and not endorsing a bum deal!

My faith is slowly being restored!

xx

AshVanRooney

Hi, my girlfriend and I have just moved into a terraced house together and found that we need a new boiler. My girlfriend is pregnant and due in the next couple of weeks so I want this sorting out ASAP. What is our best route to get the new boiler as we dont have much in the way of funds at the moment. Thanks

Coulsdon_Town

There is a pot of money from Dept of Energy & Climate Change for various people, including families where head of household is under 26. Could buy the boiler for you. Not sure exactly what it's called - possibly Codbusters - but call the Energy Saving Trust for more info on 0300 123 1234. Call even if you are too old for this one as they may suggest something else.
Good luck.

AshVanRooney wrote: »

Hi, my girlfriend and I have just moved into a terraced house together and found that we need a new boiler. My girlfriend is pregnant and due in the next couple of weeks so I want this sorting out ASAP. What is our best route to get the new boiler as we dont have much in the way of funds at the moment. Thanks

Coulsdon_Town

Great news, if only for Nationwide customers. There's an outfit called the Energy Saving Co-op which is trialling a 'not the green deal' scheme in the midlands.
I wonder if any tradesmen will at some point advertise something similar i.e. 'we specialise in solid wall insulation, no green deal plan needed'.

sashman wrote: »

Nationwide has just launched their alternative, looks like you can get MUCH lower rates for GD projects, with out the complications!

http://www.edie.net/news/6/Nationwide-launch-Green-Deal-alternative-/

sashman

Coulsdon_Town

I meant 'Coldbusters'!

Coulsdon_Town wrote: »

There is a pot of money from Dept of Energy & Climate Change for various people, including families where head of household is under 26. Could buy the boiler for you. Not sure exactly what it's called - possibly Codbusters - but call the Energy Saving Trust for more info on 0300 123 1234. Call even if you are too old for this one as they may suggest something else.
Good luck.

Gloucester_Lad

Ecodave wrote: »

I personally wouldn't be paying BG £3000 for a boiler, but you can't get away from the fact that people have been doing just that for years, its not the Green Deals doing.

As I understand it, it shouldn't be too difficult for a GasSafe fitter to become authorised under the Green Deal, so this is one area where there should be plenty of choice for consumers. Different business models are emerging, and there are some Providers who see great potential in dealing with local, qualified, tradespeople. I see this as an excellent opportunity for the local GasSafe plumber to deliver bargains to a receptive Green Deal customer base.

If you check back through my many posts on this thread and others in relation to the Green Deal, I regularly state that I think the GD is far from perfect, and that there are plenty of pitfalls it needs to swerve over the next six months to stand a chance. On the other hand, its currently the only game in town, it offers people the opportunity to improve the efficiency of their homes, with an estimation that the ongoing costs are the same or better than compared to before the GD process. The scheme allows people, who may think that they won't remain in their homes for the long term, to invest in measures that take several years to produce savings. When they leave these homes, the payments can be left for the incoming person, who will also be getting the benefit of the measures moving forward. Without such a scheme these homes would remain inefficient and expensive to heat.

I am glad you are in the position that you didn't have to borrow to fund your boiler replacement. Many are not so well off. And many wont have access to unsecured finance at less than 7%. I don't blame you for taking the option to pay up front to a tradesman who could offer you a solid guarantee. It will be a less easy choice for many though. Do I think the interest rate could have been more attractive on GD? Yep. can I do anything about that? Nope. But I don't want people to remain in inefficient houses whilst they have the option of improving them at no ongoing cost.

Well, Ecodave we're at least agreed on one thing, I don't want people to suffer in inefficient houses either.
Where we clearly differ is I don't believe the Green Deal is going to give that option, in most cases, at no extra cost. Even where an improvement can be achieved at this theoretic no extra cost value for money will be conspicuous by it's absence in the Green Deal, and I maintain better alternatives exist for the vast majority of people.

To address your last batch of inaccuracies.

Yes British Gas has been charging over the odds for boilers for some time and the Green Deal is not the sudden reason for this. However British Gas is a leading Green Deal installer and provider. British Gas probably won't be reducing their prices with an opportunity to create profit potential like the Green Deal. In fact all Green Deal installer are big player companies with equally big prices.

Smaller local suppliers of things like boilers might be able to join the Green Deal club but what small local plumber wants multiple layers of bureaucracy eating away at their margins and causing them to put up prices to cover. Big outfits can do it but for smaller outfits it's not going to happen.

Yes I'm fortunate in being able to get a new non-Green Deal boiler for cash at a much lower price. And yes there are many who won't be able to do that, but does that mean it is fair they should be paying an inflated price plus 7% interest? Just because they're poor?
I don't think so.
Does that mean they have to enter a deal where they see no energy bill savings for several years?
I don't think so.
Does that mean they should enter a deal where there is a very strong possibility that after that boiler reaches the end of it's working life they still haven't paid for it, and they have still yet to see any bill savings?
I don't think so.
And issues like that are what makes the Green Deal so bad.

If the Green Deal didn't mean inflated prices and was an interest free loan it would be great, but no it's profit for the big boys at the expense of the poor. Yes ECO is there for the very poor but lots above, and worse just above, that level are in very real danger of not benefiting at all.

There is a new "encouraging" scheme just out from Nationwide. The "Nationwide Green Additional borrowing scheme". Buy your upgrade measure from anyone, no need for membership of the Green Deal Club, benefit from much lower local trader prices (like I did with my boiler £1k cheaper than British Gas) and pay interest of 2.3%.
Now this probably won't suit everyone either but for a very high proportion of people wanting to upgrade it's a money saving step very much in the right direction.

Now if the Nationwide can offer what looks at first glance like a far better deal, practically overnight, what does it say about the Government Flagship policy, the Green Deal?

Ecodave

I think it's great that Nationwide have developed an offer in relation to home improvements. You suggest they have developed this over-night, perhaps you have links to Nationwides head office that your not telling us about, but I would think they will have been planning it for a while, that's how big companies tend to work.

"In fact all Green Deal installers are big player companies with equally big prices" - Gloucester Lad

You just made that up didn't you. I take it you haven't checked out the installer list on the greendealorb website - hint, that's where you will find a list of these companies. There are plenty of smaller companies on that list, they may be expensive, I don't know, I haven't had quotes from them. Interesting that you know that they are all so expensive though, you must have had quotes from all of them I presume.

Where we differ is that I want people to have the choice of using the Green Deal. If they can get a better deal from Nationwide etc, then great. You just want the Green Deal killing off. You want to deprive people of a different option, one that may appeal to many. Think of it like this, if people had the means to improve their homes as readily as you make out, why haven't millions of them already done it? Why do you think they will do it in the future? You are clinging to a way of doing things that has failed for many people, leaving them shivering in cold homes. The Green Deal won't be everybody's answer, but it will appeal to many. And they will end up with warmer homes for no extra money. What's wrong with that?

Richie-from-the-Boro

Ecodave wrote: »

I think it's great that Nationwide have developed an offer in relation to home improvements. You suggest they have developed this over-night, perhaps you have links to Nationwides head office that your not telling us about, but I would think they will have been planning it for a while, that's how big companies tend to work.

"In fact all Green Deal installers are big player companies with equally big prices" - Gloucester Lad

You just made that up didn't you. I take it you haven't checked out the installer list on the greendealorb website - hint, that's where you will find a list of these companies. There are plenty of smaller companies on that list, they may be expensive, I don't know, I haven't had quotes from them. Interesting that you know that they are all so expensive though, you must have had quotes from all of them I presume.

Where we differ is that I want people to have the choice of using the Green Deal. If they can get a better deal from Nationwide etc, then great. You just want the Green Deal killing off. You want to deprive people of a different option, one that may appeal to many. Think of it like this, if people had the means to improve their homes as readily as you make out, why haven't millions of them already done it? Why do you think they will do it in the future? You are clinging to a way of doing things that has failed for many people, leaving them shivering in cold homes. The Green Deal won't be everybody's answer, but it will appeal to many. And they will end up with warmer homes for no extra money. What's wrong with that?

Ecodave, if you are offering me a warmer home for no extra money I'm in.

I'd like :

- Micro combined heat and power
- Micro wind generation
- Gas-fired condensing boiler
- Replacement glazing
- Roof insulation & Room in roof insulation
- Water source heat pumps
- Under-floor heating & Under-floor insulation

.. .. and Ecodave, thank you for offering me a warmer home for no extra money, it's appreciated. Oh by the way can I have my brief draw up a 'no extra money' contract for you to sign ?

Gloucester_Lad

Ecodave wrote: »

I think it's great that Nationwide have developed an offer in relation to home improvements. You suggest they have developed this over-night, perhaps you have links to Nationwides head office that your not telling us about, but I would think they will have been planning it for a while, that's how big companies tend to work.

"In fact all Green Deal installers are big player companies with equally big prices" - Gloucester Lad

You just made that up didn't you. I take it you haven't checked out the installer list on the greendealorb website - hint, that's where you will find a list of these companies. There are plenty of smaller companies on that list, they may be expensive, I don't know, I haven't had quotes from them. Interesting that you know that they are all so expensive though, you must have had quotes from all of them I presume.

Where we differ is that I want people to have the choice of using the Green Deal. If they can get a better deal from Nationwide etc, then great. You just want the Green Deal killing off. You want to deprive people of a different option, one that may appeal to many. Think of it like this, if people had the means to improve their homes as readily as you make out, why haven't millions of them already done it? Why do you think they will do it in the future? You are clinging to a way of doing things that has failed for many people, leaving them shivering in cold homes. The Green Deal won't be everybody's answer, but it will appeal to many. And they will end up with warmer homes for no extra money. What's wrong with that?

No, wrong again Dave,

Inflated pricing not made up. Have attended Green Deal seminars run by Green Deal Advisor training companies. Open discussion on how final pricing has to absorb the costs of the layers bureaucracy, the various interacting professionals and of course the cost associated with Green Deal accreditation.

I don't want the Green Deal killed off. I want a Green Deal that works, a Green Deal that offers everyone a good deal, and that's not this Green Deal (see Martin Lewis "ten ways to improve the Green Deal" not sufficient improvement to my mind but a good start)

As for choice it's there whether anyone likes the Green Deal or not. However because I and others think this Green Deal is a bad deal I urge people to save themselves some money and exercise that choice by getting their houses upgraded via another route.

And the final point that you simple refuse to accept is that "warmer homes for no extra money" as you put it simply won't be the case for many, but it might have been with better installation prices and no interest or at least low interest.

So bring on an improved and fit for purpose Green Deal version 2 and it will get my 100% support. Until then I'll keep pointing out the Green Deal version 1 shortcomings and suggest that although efficiency improvement are a really good idea and are to be encouraged finance it another better way, and get a warmer house and even save money much sooner let alone pay no extra.

So your final question back to you, what's wrong with that?