Green Deal MSE Guide Discussion

Cardew

Ecodave wrote: »

The Green Deal won't be everybody's answer, but it will appeal to many. And they will end up with warmer homes for no extra money. What's wrong with that?

Just one question Dave.

Do you think that quotations for work to be carried out on the house under the Green Deal will be as competitive as those for householders who are paying themselves with cash?

Ecodave

Nothing wrong with wanting it to be better, I would love it to be better also. But just saying that repeatedly won't make it better. Whilst you continue ranting about it, people who have no other options are being discouraged from taking action. I am quite happy to say that people should consider all other options before deciding to use the Green Deal, but where no other options are available then the Green Deal is far far better than doing nothing.

Richie-from-the-boro - regarding guarantees, when Gloucester Lad had his new boiler installed, he didn't ask the person he bought it off to guarantee that his fuel bills would fall below a certain level. If he had, what do you think the retailer would have told him? It wouldn't be that the retailer didn't have confidence in his product, it would be that the retailer would know that Gloucester Lad may decide to leave the heating on 24-7 if he were to offer him a guarantee about bills. Same with Green Deal.

Ecodave

Cardew wrote: »

Just one question Dave.

Do you think that quotations for work to be carried out on the house under the Green Deal will be as competitive as those for householders who are paying themselves with cash?

Why don't you get a quotation and find out? I would imagine that as with anything in life, the cash purchaser would get the best deal. Of course the cash purchaser can't walk away from it in 3 years time, and leave the incoming occupant both the benefits and the payments. The cash purchaser won't get information on ECO that might save them £1000's. The cash purchaser probably won't be told about other options that they perhaps hadn't considered, that may attract support under RHI.

One question Cardew .. Did you think that you already knew the answer?

JohnO2013

Ecodave wrote: »

Why don't you get a quotation and find out? I would imagine that as with anything in life, the cash purchaser would get the best deal. Of course the cash purchaser can't walk away from it in 3 years time, and leave the incoming occupant both the benefits and the payments. The cash purchaser won't get information on ECO that might save them £1000's. The cash purchaser probably won't be told about other options that they perhaps hadn't considered, that may attract support under RHI.

One question Cardew .. Did you think that you already knew the answer?

There appears to be a lot of misunderstanding within this thread; this is, perhaps, understandable given the Government's poor presentation of the GD and ECO.

No one, at this time, can be sure how ECO will work as it is up to the Energy Companies to choose how it is delivered. It does not have to be linked to the GD; they may all deliver their obligation in different ways (Own customers, GD, partnerships with installers, brokerage, etc).

Me_fishy_u_chippie

Ecodave wrote: »

I think it's great that Nationwide have developed an offer in relation to home improvements. You suggest they have developed this over-night, perhaps you have links to Nationwides head office that your not telling us about, but I would think they will have been planning it for a while, that's how big companies tend to work.

"In fact all Green Deal installers are big player companies with equally big prices" - Gloucester Lad

You just made that up didn't you. I take it you haven't checked out the installer list on the greendealorb website - hint, that's where you will find a list of these companies. There are plenty of smaller companies on that list, they may be expensive, I don't know, I haven't had quotes from them. Interesting that you know that they are all so expensive though, you must have had quotes from all of them I presume.

Where we differ is that I want people to have the choice of using the Green Deal. If they can get a better deal from Nationwide etc, then great. You just want the Green Deal killing off. You want to deprive people of a different option, one that may appeal to many. Think of it like this, if people had the means to improve their homes as readily as you make out, why haven't millions of them already done it? Why do you think they will do it in the future? You are clinging to a way of doing things that has failed for many people, leaving them shivering in cold homes. The Green Deal won't be everybody's answer, but it will appeal to many. And they will end up with warmer homes for no extra money. What's wrong with that?

Ecodave hello!

I detect some exasperation in the tone of your reply. I also note their is some contradiction in what you say. If you are so concerned about people "shivering in cold homes" surely then you will recognise that by ripping people off with punitive rates of interest to address this is likely to result in low and no take up of the GD. Why would anyone on the face of Gods earth choose to pay over 7% interest, on energy efficiencies when they can get them considerably cheaper elsewhere? Why, also, would anyone recommend this to anyone who is scimping to save money - by all means offer this to the bankers and the wealthy who can pay away large sums of money to err banks?

Do you not recognise that this forum is for "moneysaving"? Recommending to people they should pay for a service which is overpriced seems to be going against the grain of what this forum stands for.

Any fool can pay over the odds! The success of this forum is testament to the fact that people are looking for the best deal not any deal.

The Threaders on this forum are not dissing the GD out of some blind disagreement with the "idea", in fact from all the posts I have read, they all agree something needs to be done and help needs to be offered. Particularly to those in our society that do not have the financial resources. Your comment that "its an option" holds no water with me. The GD is aimed at the neediest in society - those that inhabit the least energy efficient housing stock.

By supporting this "dogs dinner" of a deal you deprive the very thing you are striving for - choice. Only by identifying whats wrong with it can we improve it! Voila - Nationwide steps up to the plate. Now lets get the GD to better this offer and deliver to the many the efficiencies we all recognise they need.

xx

Ecodave

I can see that we are not going to agree on this matter. In your last post you did make one good point, this is a forum about money saving, and I m happy to confess that isn't my first motivation.

My problem with all the negative posters is that most of you are posting from positions of ignorance. You don't know how much Providers are going to "over-charge" but are all happy to state confidently that this is the case. You don't know that the Golden Rule won't work (most of you have no clue about how its reached) but are happy to state that it is worthless. You don't know how hard it is for many to raise finance because you haven't had to face this problem yourself. But you're quite happy to state that these people should remain in unimproved houses, waiting perhaps years for an alternative scheme to be released, or for the current one to be improved. And whilst they are waiting they continue to be faced with harder and harder choices about whether to heat their homes.

But as you say this forum is about making a fast buck, so I am going to leave you to it.

Johnandabby

Ecodave wrote: »

Nothing wrong with wanting it to be better, I would love it to be better also. But just saying that repeatedly won't make it better. Whilst you continue ranting about it, people who have no other options are being discouraged from taking action. I am quite happy to say that people should consider all other options before deciding to use the Green Deal, but where no other options are available then the Green Deal is far far better than doing nothing.

If everyone stuck together and refused to be scammed, then the government would be forced to revisit the scheme. Given the drop off in cavity and loft insulation work, for example, they would have to accept that it's down to the unnecessarily high costs involved with the Green Deal. We shouldn't settle for a system that doesn't work, just because there is no other option available at the moment.

Me_fishy_u_chippie

Ecodave - In this thread I am not having a go at you, we are all entitled to our own opinion. Indeed, its vital to any forum. But I want to get clarity from you as I dont understand where you are coming from, far less where you are headed!

You said (graciously);

"I can see that we are not going to agree on this matter. In your last post you did make one (cheers) good point, this is a forum about money saving, and I m happy to confess that isn't my first motivation". Well err, yep thats the whole point innit or, have I missed the point?

Additionally, if it really is not your first motivation then, that really clarifies things for me in the answers you provide! You, and others here, are not addressing the main reason why this website and subsequent forum exists. For members to share ways, means and methods to maximise our "bang for buck", not overpay needlessly. I and others like me, have tried to point out the structural flaws of the scheme. We have identified and communicated (all independently, incidentally, non of us are mates remember, and come from all sorts of places and backgrounds) and indeed provided examples of improvements as well as areas of concern. IE we are making a positive contribution to the forum, if you dont agree and you are entitled not to; ergo that does not mean we are being negative. However, one crucial component of our resistance to the GD as it stands is precisely this, it is a terrible deal financially!

You are of course welcome to recommend the GD to all and sundry. I and others like me - and I inhabit the commercial energy efficiency of buildings sector - will tell all and everyone who cares to listen (I'm not including you in this) why this deal is a dog! And, as the expression goes - "a fool and his money are easily parted".

Finally, you finished with this; "But as you say this forum is about making a fast buck, so I am going to leave you to it". Unlike you, I am not leaving it like this, that's why I am posting - to stop people being ripped off by the GD and ensure making a fast buck from the unsuspecting is not the inevitable result.

Time for air!

xx

grahamc2003

Ecodave wrote: »

I can see that we are not going to agree on this matter. In your last post you did make one good point, this is a forum about money saving, and I m happy to confess that isn't my first motivation.

My problem with all the negative posters is that most of you are posting from positions of ignorance. .

I wondered when the self-elevation of assessors would start. Whatever your personal very long and involved road to become an assessor, many totally unqualified people can become an assessor with only 4 days training, which includes the qualifying multi-choice test, which they helpfully tell you can be taken as many times as you like till you pass.

The 4 day is for complete beginners with no previous knowledge - as I said before, even if you don't know what a cavity wall is, 4,5 or 6 days later you can be an GD assessor.

And I doubt it will be long before a difficult sale will have a line such as 'if you go to your doctor, you take his advice don't you?'. Oh sorry, these aren't sales opportunities are they, forgot for a moment.


Green Deal Advisor Training
4 Day
£1,990.00 inc VAT

Qualification Title: Level 3 Diploma in Domestic Green Deal Advice.

Awarding Body: City & Guilds

Course Code: xxxx

This course is designed for new entrants wishing to enter the industry as a fully qualified Green Deal Advisor for Domestic properties. No previous experience is necessary.

During the 4 days classroom based training you will learn the methodologies behind producing a domestic Energy Performance Certificate along with how to produce a Green Deal Advice Report.

A portfolio of evidence based on five Energy Performance Certificates and three sample Occupancy Assessments will need to be produced by the candidate after attending the course in addition to sitting a short multiple choice test which is taken during the course with unlimited re-sits included.

Once qualified you will not only be able to produce Green Deal Advice Reports but also Energy Performance Certificates which are required when a property is sold, let, or when a Solar PV installation has taken place.

Be one of the first to qualify in this exciting new role!

Richie-from-the-Boro

What in truth happened when Helen Saxon opened the thread, was swarms of salesmen descended like locusts brought here by their google analytics's sales opportunity spyware looking for a sale. MD's and company owners and the usual plethora of snake~oil~salesmen making their pitch - displaying their URL and encouraging threaders to make contact. The worst 3 now in number have had their account pulled and they are no longer with us. More than several others quietly pulled their threads and the # numbers rolled back to sequential. Debating the efficacy of the GD in relationship with alternatives was out of the question at that time.

Thankfully, the thread now debates the GD in terms of real cost benefit and highlights the little good .. .. .. lot bad aspects of what one poster aptly described as the CDv1. The unknown % of the 13 million unique users a month that visit the site and find this thread now at least have a view of both sides and if nothing else are aware of what pitfalls there are.

I like others believe that before the winter of 2014 is over we will either have a v2 v3 and maybe a v4 and v5 of the GD scheme, at which point it will begin hopefully to resemble something closer to what it could and should, and I wished had been, at birth.