Green Deal MSE Guide Discussion

Gloucester_Lad

mingo_mango wrote: »

I work in this industry along with my husband who is currently going through the green deal training. This in itself is proving to be difficult as they have almost made it impossible to qualify and my husband would sail through this training so if he cant pass it there is something wrong. The cost of these courses is expensive and no assessor is going to do it for peanuts as they are never going to make any money. Mark group may be doing it for free at the moment but that will soon change. There are approx only 80 qualified green deal assessors in the country, The insulation industry are laying people of daily as there is no work due to the grants ending in December and this not being up and running soon enough.

Initial thoughts are it will not work as there are too many problems with it already. People who need to make their homes more energy efficient will not be able to afford the extra on their bills albeit supposed to be less than they are saving. If you cannot actually see the money you are saving you will only see the additional payments as another outgoing.

with the ECO side rumours are that they will still have to take out a small loan which will not be feasible as they cant afford it as they are on benefits and who is going to pay for their assessments.

I phoned the energy savings trust this afternoon as a potential customer to see what they would say. The man was rude and could not explain it properly could not send me any information I had to write it down. All he did was give me 3 local companies to ring for assessment all over 100 miles away

It will be like the HIPS gone in a couple of years along with approx 30,000 jobs which will be gone in the next 3 months !!

Yep, I agree with a lot of your comment.
Surprized this "game changing, Government flagship policy" has been nationally launched with only 80 qualified GDA's? If true whether anyone likes the Green Deal or not any credibility the scheme had will very soon go out the window.

I suspect there are quite a few GDA's in the process of qualifying. Some people who already work for Green Deal providers, but some will be existing DEA's. DEA's have been heavily targeted over the last few months by training outfits wanting to relieve them of up to £1500 to train and qualify. I know because I am a DEA, but I've not gone for GDA qualification because I don't think in it's current form the Green Deal is going anywhere and it would be a very long time before that £1500 is earned back. And remember some DEA's also trained back in the day as home inspectors in conjunction with the HIP debacle. Training cost them a mint, once bitten.....

I think anyone with even a modest grasp of arithmetic is going to eventually realise that the Green Deal is not the most cost effective way to upgrade their homes energy efficiency, but I'd still maintain upgrading is a really good idea.

Government spokesman have said they expect a slow start but they expect the Green Deal to take off in the longer term.
I hope they're patient, I wouldn't advise holding ones breath.

But I've not completely given up hope for the concept of the Green Deal. When the Green deal in it's current form flounders as I'm sure it will I'm hoping that the powers that be will have an attack of common sense and realise that in order to succeed the Green Deal has to be better than the alternative of organizing things ones self, or at least cost no more, right now that is certainly not the case.

Get rid of big player inflated installation costs, think interest free loans so real energy savings can be made and get rid of some of the other silly elements like tying the loan to the property and tenants footing the bill to upgrade landlords property and a "New Green Deal" could be a goer.

smd1979

I have had a green deal assessment through British Gas and promptly took £99. I was promised a EPC and an assessment but do date nothing has come. The assessor called after we left many voicemail messages to say someone will come round to give a quotation and that the epc and assessment will come shortly.

Today was the day the person from British Gas was booked to come give a quote and we got a text message confirming this. As there was snow I called british green deal to confirm if the person was still coming. I got through to the call centre and there was no info about todays visit and so they took my number to call me back. I checked the text message and there was a mobile number so I decided to call it. No answer so I left a voicemail. The gentlemen calls me back and I confirm who I am and he says he will come to do the boiler quite between 11-1. I said the assessor said we will not need a boiler quote as it was less than 3 years old but we would need external wall insulation, draft proofing and double glazing etc. He says that to get green deal you need to take boiler. I was very confused at this point. No epc, no assessment paper work and now someone telling me this deal only works if i pay £3000 for a new boiler even though my boiler is less than 3 years old and even after he assessor saying we will not need a boiler.

He then turned up and we explained again and eventually he understood that someone has messed up but there was nothing he could do. He confirmed the boiler was fine. He asked me to cancel the appointment so he could be sent to anoher job.

I then called green deal british gas again and again call centre took my number saying green deal advisors were very busy and only 7 staff in department. I have sent a similar email to british Gas as I do not know what to do. I might even call my credit card to get a refund for the £99 assessment charge. Anyone have any advice?

Ecodave

smd1979 wrote: »

I have had a green deal assessment through British Gas and promptly took £99. I was promised a EPC and an assessment but do date nothing has come. The assessor called after we left many voicemail messages to say someone will come round to give a quotation and that the epc and assessment will come shortly.

Today was the day the person from British Gas was booked to come give a quote and we got a text message confirming this. As there was snow I called british green deal to confirm if the person was still coming. I got through to the call centre and there was no info about todays visit and so they took my number to call me back. I checked the text message and there was a mobile number so I decided to call it. No answer so I left a voicemail. The gentlemen calls me back and I confirm who I am and he says he will come to do the boiler quite between 11-1. I said the assessor said we will not need a boiler quote as it was less than 3 years old but we would need external wall insulation, draft proofing and double glazing etc. He says that to get green deal you need to take boiler. I was very confused at this point. No epc, no assessment paper work and now someone telling me this deal only works if i pay £3000 for a new boiler even though my boiler is less than 3 years old and even after he assessor saying we will not need a boiler.

He then turned up and we explained again and eventually he understood that someone has messed up but there was nothing he could do. He confirmed the boiler was fine. He asked me to cancel the appointment so he could be sent to anoher job.

I then called green deal british gas again and again call centre took my number saying green deal advisors were very busy and only 7 staff in department. I have sent a similar email to british Gas as I do not know what to do. I might even call my credit card to get a refund for the £99 assessment charge. Anyone have any advice?

Its pretty disappointing that an organisation as big as BG don't seem to be able to get their act together. I have heard that rumours of problems with software have affected BG, not sure if this is true. I would imagine that when the early problems are sorted out, most companies will expect to be able to generate EPC's, occupancy reports and where you are dealing with an assessor who is working directly for a Provider, then they will issue you with preliminary quotes all on the first visit.

I would give them a few days to issue you with your EPC and occupancy report, you can then get quotes for works from any Provider.

Johnandabby

While lots of negativity about the scheme here, do you think that this would change if the interest rates were 'reasonable' and the loan term could be set by the homeowner?

The concept is a good one, but implementation is as bad as it could be!

Gloucester_Lad

Ecodave wrote: »

Its pretty disappointing that an organisation as big as BG don't seem to be able to get their act together. I have heard that rumours of problems with software have affected BG, not sure if this is true. I would imagine that when the early problems are sorted out, most companies will expect to be able to generate EPC's, occupancy reports and where you are dealing with an assessor who is working directly for a Provider, then they will issue you with preliminary quotes all on the first visit.

I would give them a few days to issue you with your EPC and occupancy report, you can then get quotes for works from any Provider.

Ecodave I have to admire your enthusiasm to see some good in the Green Deal but surely even to you £3000 for a new boiler from British Gas, a big Green Deal player (which wasn't even needed) and at 7% interest no less, on top of a £99 assessment fee, the results of which seem lost in the ether, must say something.

My new boiler cost £1500 (vaillant eco tec 831 condensing combi fully guarenteed 7 years with 10 years on the heat exchanger, so not a cheapy) from a local gas safe plumber not in the "Green Deal Club" I didn't have to borrow to fund it but if I had I could have done better than 7%. I expect to see some energy bill savings (verses outlay) long before this boiler comes to the end of it's working life too (might not be the case with the £3000 British gas boiler at 7%)
Looks a better deal to me but what does a Green Deal enthusiast think?
Given the facts how would you personally really finance efficiency improvements?
Green deal? or might you admit there are better value alternatives which really show up the short comings of the Green Deal?
Try to be honest.

Ecodave

Gloucester_Lad wrote: »

Ecodave I have to admire your enthusiasm to see some good in the Green Deal but surely even to you £3000 for a new boiler from British Gas, a big Green Deal player (which wasn't even needed) and at 7% interest no less, on top of a £99 assessment fee, the results of which seem lost in the ether, must say something.

My new boiler cost £1500 (vaillant eco tec 831 condensing combi fully guarenteed 7 years with 10 years on the heat exchanger, so not a cheapy) from a local gas safe plumber not in the "Green Deal Club" I didn't have to borrow to fund it but if I had I could have done better than 7%. I expect to see some energy bill savings (verses outlay) long before this boiler comes to the end of it's working life too (might not be the case with the £3000 British gas boiler at 7%)
Looks a better deal to me but what does a Green Deal enthusiast think?
Given the facts how would you personally really finance efficiency improvements?
Green deal? or might you admit there are better value alternatives which really show up the short comings of the Green Deal?
Try to be honest.

I personally wouldn't be paying BG £3000 for a boiler, but you can't get away from the fact that people have been doing just that for years, its not the Green Deals doing.

As I understand it, it shouldn't be too difficult for a GasSafe fitter to become authorised under the Green Deal, so this is one area where there should be plenty of choice for consumers. Different business models are emerging, and there are some Providers who see great potential in dealing with local, qualified, tradespeople. I see this as an excellent opportunity for the local GasSafe plumber to deliver bargains to a receptive Green Deal customer base.

If you check back through my many posts on this thread and others in relation to the Green Deal, I regularly state that I think the GD is far from perfect, and that there are plenty of pitfalls it needs to swerve over the next six months to stand a chance. On the other hand, its currently the only game in town, it offers people the opportunity to improve the efficiency of their homes, with an estimation that the ongoing costs are the same or better than compared to before the GD process. The scheme allows people, who may think that they won't remain in their homes for the long term, to invest in measures that take several years to produce savings. When they leave these homes, the payments can be left for the incoming person, who will also be getting the benefit of the measures moving forward. Without such a scheme these homes would remain inefficient and expensive to heat.

I am glad you are in the position that you didn't have to borrow to fund your boiler replacement. Many are not so well off. And many wont have access to unsecured finance at less than 7%. I don't blame you for taking the option to pay up front to a tradesman who could offer you a solid guarantee. It will be a less easy choice for many though. Do I think the interest rate could have been more attractive on GD? Yep. can I do anything about that? Nope. But I don't want people to remain in inefficient houses whilst they have the option of improving them at no ongoing cost.

Coulsdon_Town

I must say, i think it's charitable to think think B. Gas sound a bit disorganised. No-one in any of these Green Deal Provider outfits should be thinking, let alone saying to customers " to get green deal you need to take a boiler". And you had to explain to him again when he arrived, that you didn't need a boiler? Sounds to me more like 'eventually he accepted/realised he wasn't going to persuade you to take a quote for a boiler'. Did he quote for the insulation, glazing and draughtproofing you wanted? No? so he was only there to push the boiler??How long have you been waiting for the Advisor's Report? There are strict rules about the G.D. Advisor's role. He can switch to salesman mode while with you but he must tell you clearly that he is doing so. It troubles me that he could potentially be bypassing this rule by sending someone else to do a quote before you have the Advisor's written report.

If you feel you are getting nowhere, contact the Green Deal Ombudsman. A quote from their website : "Our job is to help resolve complaints about a Green Deal Provider if a provider is unable or unwilling to help when something goes wrong with a Green Deal Plan.
This includes complaints which have been considered by the Green Deal Provider and not resolved to the satisfaction of the customer, or, where the customer has been unable to register a complaint with the Green Deal Provider." See their website or call 0330 440 1624 in office hours.
Good luck and keep us posted if you can.

smd1979 wrote: »

I have had a green deal assessment through British Gas and promptly took £99. I was promised a EPC and an assessment but do date nothing has come. The assessor called after we left many voicemail messages to say someone will come round to give a quotation and that the epc and assessment will come shortly.

Today was the day the person from British Gas was booked to come give a quote and we got a text message confirming this. As there was snow I called british green deal to confirm if the person was still coming. I got through to the call centre and there was no info about todays visit and so they took my number to call me back. I checked the text message and there was a mobile number so I decided to call it. No answer so I left a voicemail. The gentlemen calls me back and I confirm who I am and he says he will come to do the boiler quite between 11-1. I said the assessor said we will not need a boiler quote as it was less than 3 years old but we would need external wall insulation, draft proofing and double glazing etc. He says that to get green deal you need to take boiler. I was very confused at this point. No epc, no assessment paper work and now someone telling me this deal only works if i pay £3000 for a new boiler even though my boiler is less than 3 years old and even after he assessor saying we will not need a boiler.

He then turned up and we explained again and eventually he understood that someone has messed up but there was nothing he could do. He confirmed the boiler was fine. He asked me to cancel the appointment so he could be sent to anoher job.

I then called green deal british gas again and again call centre took my number saying green deal advisors were very busy and only 7 staff in department. I have sent a similar email to british Gas as I do not know what to do. I might even call my credit card to get a refund for the £99 assessment charge. Anyone have any advice?

Coulsdon_Town

Hi Gloucester Lad and Me Fishy U Chippy,
I guess i'm perceived as a G.D. enthusiast so i will respond soon. I tried yesterday but lost all my text before posting it. Actually i very much think the jury is out on Green Deal, and meantime i've been trying to correct a lot of what i see as misconceptions about it.

Gloucester_Lad wrote: »

Ecodave I have to admire your enthusiasm to see some good in the Green Deal but surely even to you £3000 for a new boiler from British Gas, a big Green Deal player (which wasn't even needed) and at 7% interest no less, on top of a £99 assessment fee, the results of which seem lost in the ether, must say something.

My new boiler cost £1500 (vaillant eco tec 831 condensing combi fully guarenteed 7 years with 10 years on the heat exchanger, so not a cheapy) from a local gas safe plumber not in the "Green Deal Club" I didn't have to borrow to fund it but if I had I could have done better than 7%. I expect to see some energy bill savings (verses outlay) long before this boiler comes to the end of it's working life too (might not be the case with the £3000 British gas boiler at 7%)
Looks a better deal to me but what does a Green Deal enthusiast think?
Given the facts how would you personally really finance efficiency improvements?
Green deal? or might you admit there are better value alternatives which really show up the short comings of the Green Deal?
Try to be honest.

sashman

Nationwide has just launched their alternative, looks like you can get MUCH lower rates for GD projects, with out the complications!

http://www.edie.net/news/6/Nationwide-launch-Green-Deal-alternative-/

sashman

JohnO2013

sashman wrote: »

Nationwide has just launched their alternative, looks like you can get MUCH lower rates for GD projects, with out the complications!


sashman

Much better; nice to see a BS providing a lead to the Government.