Green Deal MSE Guide Discussion

sashman

Firstly MSE great summary of the GD in your guide.

Having met ministers about this subject I am still at a loss why it is beingpromoted.

GD windows cost consumers MORE, see you guide notes work is £2500 repaymentis more than twice as much! That’s a rip off.

GD saves money, NOT guaranteed. If the thermostat stays at the same levelthere's NO SAVING, the reduction of energy to save the costs has to come fromlower usage, it is not automatic.

GD isn’t personal debt TRUE is belongs to the house, but you try sellingyour house with a 25 year loan against it, it's PERSONAL THEN, when you cannotsell the thing!

Don’t get me wrong, I admire the coalition for doing something different,but there will be two winners with GD, firstly the banks and lendingauthorities charging high rates of interest (more than the goods themselves inyour illustration) and Landlords. Landlords, people with money and propertieswill get improvements made and their tenants will pay for it via their electricbills, NICE con!

Such a pity the government didn't listen to industry because we came up witha number of better solutions....oh yes they went to consultation and that willbe their "get out of jail card" but they didn’t incorporate thesuggestions.

Mark my words, mis-selling of the GD will be the next fiasco because nobodyunderstands it and savings are not guaranteed.

sashman

lumper_2

From some of these comments it is clear that there is a lot of misinformation being thrown out by people who have no idea what they are talking about, and those who cannot get work from Geaan Deal because they are not qualified enough to be providers or installers chill out and get alife, if your'e not intersted or involved - move on!

grahamc2003

NaughtySpot wrote: »

It's not just about saving £££ on our energy bills either, it's about being warm in your own home. If we can make these improvements and it not cost us much more then I'm all for it. We can't extend our mortgage, and a traditional loan is out of the question, so for us this is a good thing. It's a shame there is so much negativity surrounding something that for some people can make a difference to their home.

Your impression of the way the scheme works in practice is different to the impression I've got.

For a start, a major problem with the scheme is that the energy savings (which then go to pay off the loan) are estimated.

They don't care what your bills are for your house at the moment. They work out what they think they should be from a set formula. If you have your heating currently at 19C, but there standard assessment says the temperature is assumed to be 21C, they work out the current bills based on 21C. So you may pay £1kpa, but they may assess your bill at £1.5k. (This is just what I've picked up from the net - please could any assessors confirm/put me right?).

They may say put in CVI. They then reassess, saying the standard bill for the average house of your type in your location with cvi should be £1.2k - a green deal assessed saving of £300pa, which would be added to your bill to pay off the loan.

In practice, if you keep your house at 19, you may save £100 due to cvi, i.e. lowering the energy cost from £1k to £900. You then have added on, a perfectly green deal golden rule compatible £300pa to your bill, making it £1.2kpa - £200 more than bfore. This solely due to them not even wanting to know what you actual bills are currently, or what they will be in the future. They are only interested in assessed/estimated/deemed/notional bills.

You keep your home cooler (as I do and I expect millions of others do - I don't even want 20C in every room in my house) - so it's likely you won't in practice save on your bills as you expect, and they may well be increased (20% in the example above).

Once again, I'd like to qualify this with this is info I've picked up from the web, not any official info. So may be completely incorrect (as most posts on most forums with googled info). Appreciate a trained assessors comments on this.

grahamc2003

NaughtySpot wrote: »

From a personal point of view our GD assessor didn't plug British Gas at all.



I think I'll step away from this thread, I was trying to share my personal experience so people can make a decision for themselves, but this doesn't seem to be the way this thread is going .

I'd really appreciate you continuing to post your experiences - people who have had an assessment are few and far between. No one is criticising you surely - they are criticising the scheme, manily from a point of non-participation. I'd love to hear some positive aspects of it - my impression is pretty negative atm, but I know little about it, and obviously the views of those actually in the scheme are very valuable.

Edit - caught up with the rest of the posts, and unfortunately some are getting a little aggressive, so I can understand your post. All I can say is ignore the agressiveness, and post your experiences knowing many will appreciate them.

JohnO2013

lumper wrote: »

From some of these comments it is clear that there is a lot of misinformation being thrown out by people who have no idea what they are talking about, and those who cannot get work from Geaan Deal because they are not qualified enough to be providers or installers chill out and get alife, if your'e not intersted or involved - move on!

Your comments suggest that it is quite demanding to qualify as a GD installer.

The facts, take a one day course on PAS 2030 and GD, be given a QMS for your company, pay to have the latter assessed; lo and behold your an installer. Really difficult!

sashman

Don’t forget assessors are generally tied to a company (after all theirwages have to be paid by someone).

Is anyone really suggesting that a "tied assessor" will offeradvice and recommend a different window installer!

The other point is that small local companies find it very difficult andvery bureaucracy to get certified, British Gas and others now control theindustry. THEY will get the work, THEY will farm it out to THEIR favouredinstallers, on THEIR payment terms, resulting in far less consumer choice.

sashman

fivins

You mention that solar panels are part of the Green Deal but then ignore them completely in the guide. What's the cashback. How does this all fit in with the feed in tariffs?

Gloucester_Lad

grahamc2003 wrote: »

I'd really appreciate you continuing to post your experiences - people who have had an assessment are few and far between. No one is criticising you surely - they are criticising the scheme, manily from a point of non-participation. I'd love to hear some positive aspects of it - my impression is pretty negative atm, but I know little about it, and obviously the views of those actually in the scheme are very valuable.

Edit - caught up with the rest of the posts, and unfortunately some are getting a little aggressive, so I can understand your post. All I can say is ignore the agressiveness, and post your experiences knowing many will appreciate them.

Well, grahamc2003 I certainly agree that any view of this scheme should be based on the facts, be objective rather than emotional and there is no place for any aggression.

Look back through the posts so far and all the information is there, admittedly some of it skewed a little depending if you are for or against the Green Deal.
It looks to me like some of those in favor might well be people qualified as GDAdvisors who have just paid out a significant sum to become qualified and who therefore have an interest in the success of the scheme. Some pro Green Deal posts will also be coming from people who may not have looked into the scheme closely and decided from a superficially initial point of view that this Green Deal looks like a good deal, and perhaps that there is no other alternative for them.

Opponents of the scheme have concluded that the Green Deal is not a good deal. Some some see a mis-selling scam in the making or therorise that it's some conspiricy to take money from people or that it's a very profit for the big boys money making initiative, and they have posted some quite aggressive and emotional comments.
On the other hand some opponents have identified the poorer aspects of the Green Deal on a purely objective basis and concluded that although improving home energy efficiency is a really good idea almost anyone can do a lot better than the Green Deal.
I fall into the later category of opponents.

The site is called money saving expert, so getting the most for your money is what it's all about. That's where I'm coming from and comments I've made are I believe factual and objective. As an existing energy assessor (just EPC's) I've researched the Green Deal carefully because I considered becoming a GDAdvisor. I decided not to because I don't think the Green Deal in it's current format is at all a good deal, and won't be successful from a viewpoint of number of upgrades or value for the householder.

I'm all for upgrading UK housing stock and helping people keep their energy bills down but my belief is that almost anyone can do much better organizing this themselves rather than doing it through the Green Deal (in it's present operational form)

As for why I conclude this read a few of my previous posts. Hopefully you'll agree they are objectively based.

Cardew

The Government missed a trick - they should have made Nectar points mandatory and then it would have been a sure fire success;)

The scheme has clear potential for exploitation by installers, which together with IMO a high 7% interest rate, makes it of questionable value.

Landlord of course will be happy if they can get improvements paid for by tenants

Gloucester_Lad

lumper wrote: »

From some of these comments it is clear that there is a lot of misinformation being thrown out by people who have no idea what they are talking about, and those who cannot get work from Geaan Deal because they are not qualified enough to be providers or installers chill out and get alife, if your'e not intersted or involved - move on!

I agree that mis-information helps no one but to suggest that opponents to the Green Deal (in it's current format at least) are somehow expressing sour grapes is a bit unfair.

There are plenty of posts which are carefully research and highlight some genuine concerns about the Green Deal and these opinions should not be dismissed.

The site is called "money saving expert", the idea is to share experiences, knowledge and opinions with a view to helping everyone get the most from their hard earned cash. So to say "if your'e not interested or involved - move on!" could be viewed as saying "it might be a poor deal but it's good for me so butt out".
Not that for one moment I would suggest that's what you really are saying of course.
You appear to like the green deal so it would be more constructive if you address some of the concerns already objectively expressed and give information to correct anything you see as mis-information.