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Which SUV/ Crossover

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  • System
    System Posts: 178,340 Community Admin
    10,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    According to Autocar, which is what I referred to after the Sportage was suggested as an option. You are getting your information from an American site, different engines and different specs.

    http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-categories/crossovers

    And I allready admitted to making a mistake regarding crossover and SUV.

    The reason I provided links to the US sites were that they provide better analysis than the usual UK rubbish. The UK still hasn't figured out what an SUV is supposed to be. The specs may be different but the US and UK models for all the SUVs in my link are the same dimensions.

    For a UK article:

    http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/new-cars/2012-07/euro-spec-2013-honda-cr-v-breaks-cover-in-frankfurt/

    Where they are putting one of my examples in the same segment as the Sportage but within mid range as opposed to the budget end that Kia operate in.

    I don't agree with the autocar article. Tiguan is definitely a compact SUV.

    Which WhatCar article are you referencing? The review for just the Sportage that I read when I was looking agrees with what I said previously which is that it is excellent vfm but lacks quality wise. They gave it only 3/5 which I thought was harsh.
    This is a system account and does not represent a real person. To contact the Forum Team email forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
  • TradePro
    TradePro Posts: 652 Forumite
    Walcott wrote: »
    Nope.

    If you would have followed the chain of posts you would have realised that the OP specifically stated that the Sportage is class leading. That is what I replied to. Sportage is not class leading.

    Are you really banding a Sportage in X1 class? Are you being serious when you say you really think the same person would would actually think of a Sportage and X1 as the same segment? Just by actually looking at pictures of the two do you not see the if you were looking in the BMW range you have just looked at the wrong BMW!

    I fully understand the segment. Are you sure you do? You do realise that the Sportage pre dates the segment you actually try to put it in?

    Here is a little comparison:

    http://www.autorivals.net/suvs/2011sportagevs2010crv/2011sportagevs2010crv.htm

    Look at the actual dimensions. I am surprised that when Kia themselves have aimed the Sportage firmly into the compact SUV market that just about everyone on this thread is trying to deny that its main rivals exceed it by putting it into a lower class segment.

    Like I said before, Sportage is a good budget SUV. If you want the newest numerplate on your drive then great go for a Kia but lets not fool ourselves by saying just about everyone from BMW to Toyota and Honda are making worse SUV's.

    I don't know where to start.

    Firstly, What Car? clearly put the Sportage and X1 in the same segment (as per the chart), so how come you know better?

    I work in the industry, and can confirm that people do look at the Sportage against the Q3, Evoque, and of course more sensibly priced options such as the Qashqai (the X1 rarely gets a mention, I don't see many on the roads either though).

    It's not the best in class in all respects, as I said, it's a bit dull to drive compared to some of the others, but don't assume it cannot compete just because the badge isn't posh enough for your personal tastes (and your level of brainwashing from the German manufacturer's marketing people). Did you know that the Hyundai-Kia group are the 4th largest car manufacturer in the World? And that the Hyundai 'parent company', is one of the biggest conglomerates on the planet, who could probably buy and sell BMW a few times over...be in no doubt whatsoever that Kia have the R&D budget to create a decent car.

    My impression is that you see Kia along with Dacia, Proton, Perodua et al - WRONG!

    The link you provided told me absolutely nothing, I'm not sure what point you were trying to make with it, sorry.

    Previous incarnations of the Sportage were not crossovers, dead right, but when the latest version arrived it was 'reinvented' directly into the segment.
    And that my son, is how to waft a towel!
  • interstellaflyer
    interstellaflyer Posts: 2,065 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    edited 1 February 2013 at 10:51AM
    Walcott wrote: »
    The reason I provided links to the US sites were that they provide better analysis than the usual UK rubbish. The UK still hasn't figured out what an SUV is supposed to be. The specs may be different but the US and UK models for all the SUVs in my link are the same dimensions.

    For a UK article:

    http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/new-cars/2012-07/euro-spec-2013-honda-cr-v-breaks-cover-in-frankfurt/

    Where they are putting one of my examples in the same segment as the Sportage but within mid range as opposed to the budget end that Kia operate in.

    I don't agree with the autocar article. Tiguan is definitely a compact SUV.

    Which WhatCar article are you referencing? The review for just the Sportage that I read when I was looking agrees with what I said previously which is that it is excellent vfm but lacks quality wise. They gave it only 3/5 which I thought was harsh.

    Have you checked the CO2 and VED bands for your beloved CRV' £460 for the 2.0ltr Petrol and £275 for the 2.2 Diesel, that is considerably higher than any Sportage, Qashqai, IX35, Yeti, even the Mazda CX5 2.0ltr petrol come in at only £120 VED that alone puts the CRV in a higher category and in my view is pretty poor for a propriety brand such as Honda. I've just checked the New 2013 CRV, the CO2 and VED bands are not much better, the 2wd 2.0ltr will cost you £275 in VED, pretty damned poor compared to the Mazda eh.
    I hate football and do wish people wouldn't keep talking about it like it's the most important thing in the world
  • System
    System Posts: 178,340 Community Admin
    10,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    TradePro wrote: »
    I don't know where to start.

    Firstly, What Car? clearly put the Sportage and X1 in the same segment (as per the chart), so how come you know better?

    I work in the industry, and can confirm that people do look at the Sportage against the Q3, Evoque, and of course more sensibly priced options such as the Qashqai (the X1 rarely gets a mention, I don't see many on the roads either though).

    It's not the best in class in all respects, as I said, it's a bit dull to drive compared to some of the others, but don't assume it cannot compete just because the badge isn't posh enough for your personal tastes (and your level of brainwashing from the German manufacturer's marketing people). Did you know that the Hyundai-Kia group are the 4th largest car manufacturer in the World? And that the Hyundai 'parent company', is one of the biggest conglomerates on the planet, who could probably buy and sell BMW a few times over...be in no doubt whatsoever that Kia have the R&D budget to create a decent car.

    My impression is that you see Kia along with Dacia, Proton, Perodua et al - WRONG!

    The link you provided told me absolutely nothing, I'm not sure what point you were trying to make with it, sorry.

    Previous incarnations of the Sportage were not crossovers, dead right, but when the latest version arrived it was 'reinvented' directly into the segment.

    Brainwashed by German brands? Not really. Never owned a German car in my life. What I won't do however is write them off for no good reason like you do.

    Did you not read my post? The link shows dimensions.

    When did I say I see Kia as Dacia or Proton. Please try to stick to what I actually say rather than making stuff up.

    I said Kia is at the budget end of the SUV market. Do you really think otherwise? Because that is exactly what they do. It is a budget brand that offers VFM. Seeing as WhatCar is your car bible, have a look at the Sportage review. They put it into the budget category.

    I don't care how many times Kia could buy over BMW. I don't base my car buying decisions on such silly factors.
    This is a system account and does not represent a real person. To contact the Forum Team email forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
  • System
    System Posts: 178,340 Community Admin
    10,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    Have you checked the CO2 and VED bands for your beloved CRV' £460 for the 2.0ltr Petrol and £275 for the 2.2 Diesel, that is considerably higher than any Sportage, Qashqai, IX35, Yeti, even the Mazda CX5 2.0ltr petrol come in at only £120 VED that alone puts the CRV in a higher category and in my view is pretty poor for a propriety brand such as Honda. I've just checked the New 2013 CRV, the CO2 and VED bands are not much better, the 2wd 2.0ltr will cost you £275 in VED, pretty damned poor compared to the Mazda eh.

    The VED band does not determine the segment of a vehicle.

    Are you sure you checked thoroughly for the new model? Because if you did then you would have seen they are introducing a 1.6 diesel into the range.

    Its all good and well comparing VED's but you have to understand that alot of the non budget options in the segment are offering a range of engine options from low to higher power whereas the Hyundai and Kia will stop at a certain point because no one wants high fuel costs on a budget car because the whole point of going the vfm route was not to have high costs.
    This is a system account and does not represent a real person. To contact the Forum Team email forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
  • TradePro
    TradePro Posts: 652 Forumite
    Walcott wrote: »
    Brainwashed by German brands? Not really. Never owned a German car in my life. What I won't do however is write them off for no good reason like you do.

    Did you not read my post? The link shows dimensions.

    When did I say I see Kia as Dacia or Proton. Please try to stick to what I actually say rather than making stuff up.

    I said Kia is at the budget end of the SUV market. Do you really think otherwise? Because that is exactly what they do. It is a budget brand that offers VFM. Seeing as WhatCar is your car bible, have a look at the Sportage review. They put it into the budget category.

    I don't care how many times Kia could buy over BMW. I don't base my car buying decisions on such silly factors.

    I have been an Aftersales Manager at two different VW dealerships (one of them heavily involved in Audi too), and also held the same position with the Nissan and Mazda brands. The German cars were completely terrible, especially in comparison to the Japanese stuff.

    Oh yeah, the Sportage is 4" shorter than the CR-V. Thanks for that...

    To be fair What Car? isn't my bible, I consider that lot to be badge-fans too, my opinions are very much more akin to Honest John's (I guess I can now expect a link to Honest John saying something good about a German car, or something bad about an Asian one...).

    The table I provided, that demonstrates the Sportage's high quality, and the X1's low quality, comes from owner data, not What Car? journalists.

    I don't know why you would consider me educating you that Hyundai-Kia is a bigger, wealthier company than BMW to be a 'silly factor', I think it's quite a valid point.
    And that my son, is how to waft a towel!
  • Walcott wrote: »
    The VED band does not determine the segment of a vehicle.

    Are you sure you checked thoroughly for the new model? Because if you did then you would have seen they are introducing a 1.6 diesel into the range.

    Its all good and well comparing VED's but you have to understand that alot of the non budget options in the segment are offering a range of engine options from low to higher power whereas the Hyundai and Kia will stop at a certain point because no one wants high fuel costs on a budget car because the whole point of going the vfm route was not to have high costs.

    My figures were those quoted by Honda, they do not list a 1.6 version yet, also the CRV is a physicaly bigger vehicle than the others listed so is not up against Sportage, IX35, Qashqai etc, it is closer to Freelander, X3, Q5, Outlander etc.
    I hate football and do wish people wouldn't keep talking about it like it's the most important thing in the world
  • System
    System Posts: 178,340 Community Admin
    10,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    TradePro wrote: »
    I have been an Aftersales Manager at two different VW dealerships (one of them heavily involved in Audi too), and also held the same position with the Nissan and Mazda brands. The German cars were completely terrible, especially in comparison to the Japanese stuff.

    Oh yeah, the Sportage is 4" shorter than the CR-V. Thanks for that...

    To be fair What Car? isn't my bible, I consider that lot to be badge-fans too, my opinions are very much more akin to Honest John's (I guess I can now expect a link to Honest John saying something good about a German car, or something bad about an Asian one...).

    The table I provided, that demonstrates the Sportage's high quality, and the X1's low quality, comes from owner data, not What Car? journalists.

    I don't know why you would consider me educating you that Hyundai-Kia is a bigger, wealthier company than BMW to be a 'silly factor', I think it's quite a valid point.

    Might be valid to you. I don't really think it makes any difference to the driving experience. I'd be happy to own a Sportage next time I buy but not because its parent entity was bigger than BMW.

    I already provided a link to Honest John. His views were the same as mine - that the Sportage, CRV, X3 and Tiguan are in the same segment. They vary on where they sit between budget to luxury.
    This is a system account and does not represent a real person. To contact the Forum Team email forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
  • Gloomendoom
    Gloomendoom Posts: 16,551 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    edited 1 February 2013 at 12:37PM
    There is some interesting discussion on this thread. We own a Sportage but I have absolutely no idea what class or segment it belongs to. The V5 states that it is an "estate car".

    When my wife was looking to replace her Ibiza, we started out at the local SEAT dealer (we will never cross their threshold again :mad:.) That led us to the Kia dealer looking at the ProCeed. While in there we noticed the Sportage and liked the look of it, realised that the extra space and ground clearance would suit our needs better, and switched our attention to similar cars, although Mrs G was slightly bothered by the size and extra fuel consumption over a hatch. The Freelander was out because of size and price, the CRV was out because it was too expensive, too thirsty and, in our opinion, pig ugly (pre recent facelift.) The X1 wasn't even considered because it was obvious that it was too cramped, too expensive and had no "off tarmac" ability at all.

    The Quasqai and the IX35 were rejected because they were too "mumsy". The Evoque was a hard one. It is clearly in a different league, cramped and very expensive but we did consider it.

    All of the cars we looked at (and we looked at anything and everything that even vaguely resembled a Sportage, including the Yeti) had their good points but in the end, the Sportage won on the best balance of looks, practicality and value for money.
  • alleycat`
    alleycat` Posts: 1,901 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    edited 1 February 2013 at 1:45PM
    Agree with almost everything written by G&D, although i don't agree about the IX35 and Mumsy.
    I feel it is a bit like the Yeti, people either like it or they don't.

    The sportages shape / styling is more universally accepted but i, personally, feel they didn't bother to finish the back as it looks like the designer got bored.

    I currently have a Yeti but i'd quite happily have any of the ix35, sportage, yeti or qashqai and possibly, now, the cx-5

    The x1, Tiguan and Audi equivalents felt like badge over product, and the prices reflected that.

    The CRV (at the time) and the Rav4 felt dated and over priced for what they offered.

    The ASX looked like mitsubishi forgot about the interior and the servicing intervals on the diesels were offputting (i think every 8k miles?).

    Considering i looked at all of the above before picking the Yeti i'd consider them "same segment" as, to me anyway, they appear to me to be fighting over the same piece of pie.

    Edit:- o and i bought the Yeti as neither Kia or Hyundai could supply a vehicle of the right specification in the time frame required.
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