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We WILL get an EU referendum

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Comments

  • Graham_Devon
    Graham_Devon Posts: 58,560 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Regardless of the referendum, the promise of it has really put the cat amongst the pigeons.

    One political commentator has stated that this is just what we need, as we now see real difference between the parties. Now it's up to the people.

    Another commentator has looked into how all the parties have so far been blaming each other in opposition for not offering a referendum. Now its offered and the very same words are being stated "weak, confused" etc.

    Apparently we now have a higher chance of a lib/lab coalition, and we could see the lib dems pull out of the coalition within the next 6 months, moving to support labour in the hope they can create an alliance against the tories and therefore stop the referendum.

    One thing everyone who's not a politician or businessman is confused about, is why labour and the lib dems keep stating it's not in our interest, and what we want is X Y and Z.

    Finally, we could be at a point where politics is truley divided, and you can choose between a party which tells you what you want without giving you a say and tells you what is in your interests, and another party, who give the choice.

    As for all this "they should do it now", as a commentator said, it's a useful tool for the parties against this, but it would be impossible under the coalition.

    It's also reported that labour and the lib dems are looking into a motion to stop this referendum being offered at all. It may be that they look to stop it being written into law as part of the tories manifesto. However, it's said this would be a grave mistake as it would make both parties suceptable to looking as if they are against democracy itself.
  • drc
    drc Posts: 2,057 Forumite
    Regardless of the referendum, the promise of it has really put the cat amongst the pigeons.

    One political commentator has stated that this is just what we need, as we now see real difference between the parties. Now it's up to the people.

    Another commentator has looked into how all the parties have so far been blaming each other in opposition for not offering a referendum. Now its offered and the very same words are being stated "weak, confused" etc.

    Apparently we now have a higher chance of a lib/lab coalition, and we could see the lib dems pull out of the coalition within the next 6 months, moving to support labour in the hope they can create an alliance against the tories and therefore stop the referendum.

    One thing everyone who's not a politician or businessman is confused about, is why labour and the lib dems keep stating it's not in our interest, and what we want is X Y and Z.

    Finally, we could be at a point where politics is truley divided, and you can choose between a party which tells you what you want without giving you a say and tells you what is in your interests, and another party, who give the choice.

    As for all this "they should do it now", as a commentator said, it's a useful tool for the parties against this, but it would be impossible under the coalition.

    It's also reported that labour and the lib dems are looking into a motion to stop this referendum being offered at all. It may be that they look to stop it being written into law as part of the tories manifesto. However, it's said this would be a grave mistake as it would make both parties suceptable to looking as if they are against democracy itself.

    I think UKIP are the wildcard in all this. At the moment the Tories and UKIP are snubbing each other but if they agreed to join the Tories in a coalition presumably we could see a similar situation to now (except more right-leaning). This is not so incomprehensible as apparently UKIP are now more popular than the Lib Dems and the party that is taking so many ex-Tories.
  • Graham_Devon
    Graham_Devon Posts: 58,560 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    edited 23 January 2013 at 12:18PM
    drc wrote: »
    I think UKIP are the wildcard in all this. At the moment the Tories and UKIP are snubbing each other but if they agreed to join the Tories in a coalition presumably we could see a similar situation to now (except more right-leaning). This is not so incomprehensible as apparently UKIP are now more popular than the Lib Dems and the party that is taking so many ex-Tories.

    Yer, it really is quite interesting.

    The commentators are out in force, but it's difficult to get anything other than "the EU is good for us and it's not in the national interest to offer a referendum".

    I'm finding the political commentators thoughts the most telling. The BBC appears simply to be airtime for pro EU people at the moment, all with very little to say other than vague "National Interest" and "Cameron has put our economy at risk".

    The economy at risk thing would be OK if they hadn't too have used that:

    A) When we didn't join the Euro currency.
    B) More recently in order to slam Cameron having the audacity to use his veto (anyone remember the same end of the economy scare stories then?)

    Again, as another political commentator have recently stated, they can't keep threatening the same thing to everything they come up against. In doing so they dilute their own argument.

    Late yesterday we had scare stories of the pound and shares sliding. "Remember Black Wednesday" came up on the Guardian comments, as if we were going to sink today. It hasn't happened, it's all instant scare tactics all the time.
  • drc
    drc Posts: 2,057 Forumite
    Yer, it really is quite interesting.

    The commentators are out in force, but it's difficult to get anything other than "the EU is good for us and it's not in the national interest to offer a referendum".

    I'm finding the political commentators thoughts the most telling. The BBC appears simply to be airtime for pro EU people at the moment, all with very little to say other than vague "National Interest" and "Cameron has put our economy at risk".

    I actually think it is quite scary how much it is being orchestrated to get the "right" result, using state funded media (the BBC) to push the "correct" line (like Big Brother) and if we (the people) don't do what they want, they will simply engineer a way for us to give them the correct result (like Ireland). Just shows how undemocratic the UK political system really is.
  • Graham_Devon
    Graham_Devon Posts: 58,560 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    The one thing that's stood out to me so far is the amount of people rallying round accusing David Cameron of weasel words etc, as he won't offer it now.

    The BBC allow this to be said without interuption.

    However, who did it take to put the record straight? The one person who's party is now at most risk of losing votes to to the tories....Nigel Farage. Again, he cut all the nonsense, and when asked why they won't do it now simply said "they can't, they are part of a coalition, do you really think the lib dems and labour would allow this to be put through parliament"?

    He just cuts through the nonsense every single time. Gives a straight up reason (which is completely ignored by most with an agenda) and gives the truth in just a few words.

    We need more like him in politics. Gove is similar, but much detested (don't like him myself really, but respect him).

    Why does the BBC allow this continuous line of Cameron being hollow as he's offering a referendum only if they get power by those it brings on to it's programmes? It certainly wouldn't get past the coalition.
  • wotsthat
    wotsthat Posts: 11,325 Forumite
    The commentators are out in force, but it's difficult to get anything other than "the EU is good for us and it's not in the national interest to offer a referendum".

    I'm finding the political commentators thoughts the most telling. The BBC appears simply to be airtime for pro EU people at the moment, all with very little to say other than vague "National Interest" and "Cameron has put our economy at risk".

    Graham you've mentioned 'commentators' about 20 times in this thread. These tend to be media hungry types who think that people wouldn't understand what David Cameron just said without their incisive commentary (and spin).

    Hopefully the coming years will see an emerging debate based on reasoned debate and data analysis - today it's just noise.
  • wotsthat
    wotsthat Posts: 11,325 Forumite
    Here's some more noise that made me smile...

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21161842
    The French foreign minister says France will welcome any businesses that leave the UK, should the country exit the European Union.

    Reacting to David Cameron's speech on Europe, Laurent Fabius said: "If the UK decides to leave the EU, we will roll out the red carpet to businessmen."
  • StevieJ
    StevieJ Posts: 20,174 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Cameron must be really desperate, feels like the last throw of the dice, or the desperate gambler's 'all or nothing' on the the last race.
    'Just think for a moment what a prospect that is. A single market without barriers visible or invisible giving you direct and unhindered access to the purchasing power of over 300 million of the worlds wealthiest and most prosperous people' Margaret Thatcher
  • Graham_Devon
    Graham_Devon Posts: 58,560 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Have to say, the Beed is amusing me this morning. I have nothing to compare against, as I've only had that on.

    But reported out in the field are asking people what they think as they walk past. Most are for a referendum, but want information. However, the presenter has always interviews "someone earlier" who is pro EU, and worried about everything. They can never show them, but it's ALWAYS the last item after interviewing people on the street.

    It's always the fanton Pro EU who's mentioned. Theres not been one single fantom Pro Referendum person so far :D
  • Graham_Devon
    Graham_Devon Posts: 58,560 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    wotsthat wrote: »
    Graham you've mentioned 'commentators' about 20 times in this thread. These tend to be media hungry types who think that people wouldn't understand what David Cameron just said without their incisive commentary (and spin).

    Hopefully the coming years will see an emerging debate based on reasoned debate and data analysis - today it's just noise.

    That's because there are a lot of commentators.

    I don't think they all have an agenda. But it's the only way currently to get an overview of the situation from those in the media.

    The rest who are interviewed are political and by nature, biased to whatever they need to say.
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