We WILL get an EU referendum

Graham_Devon

Conrad wrote: »

He used the words 'I don't support an in-out referendum'. I guess the 'in-out' bit will be used as his get out of jail card.

That was after the pause for breath though, wasn't it?

Afterall, the tories don't want an in or out referendum on it's own either.

wotsthat

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Then you won't be against people having a say, as it will be to stay in the EU. What's to be scared of?

Just a thought.

Why would I be scared? It's really quite interesting politics and I'm looking forward to seeing how the two sides of the argument position themselves. What I expect is no commitments - it's politicians we're talking about - they'll want to see how the land lies before finally positioning themselves.

They'll be gutted that there's a general election in 2015 because, to an extent, that's going to force them to start positioning themselves uncomfortably far ahead of time.

Have you spotted that despite David Cameron turning this into such a high profile issue and having such strong views he's forgotten to mention how he'd vote?

Masomnia

If he'd said how he would be voting that would weaken his position for any negotiations that take place.

Graham_Devon

We face a real propsect now, and this is what interests me. I'd like a vote, I've made that clear, it's never been offered to me, and neither has real proper information. I'm just expected to pay in. At the moment, I'd likely vote to stay in, BUT, I'd rather have a vote based on a proper renogotiation. If the EU will not negotiate, I think we'd be better out, considering the way the EU is moving towards political governance over and above fiscal governance. That is a highly scary prospect to me and just shows the EU isn't about involving countries, it's about ruling them.

The key problem for me, now, lies here...

Either we vote for a conservative government and get the referendum. OR we vote for labour, and get Ed Milliand and Ed Balls running the country.

I'm not sure what would be more disasterous. The scare stories actually playing out if we got a referendum and came out of the EU, or Ed Milliband and Ed Balls running the country. Those two running the country could be more disasterous than the scare stories about coming out of the EU.

Can anyone seriously imagine Ed Milliband next to Obama in a crisis or negotiating situation? He'd simply do whatever he was told to do. And Ed Balls as chancellor? Up against EU chancellors? Blimey.

It doesn't inspire me with confidence that this is our best choice right now. The other option would be a Lib/Lab pact, which, considering the lib dems record to date, and Ed and Ed jostling in with no clawback from the tories, well, it doesn't bear thinking about.

wotsthat

Masomnia wrote: »

If he'd said how he would be voting that would weaken his position for any negotiations that take place.

...plus he'd have one or other sides of his party permanently around his neck for the next 5 years and a leadership challenge would be the likely result. History suggests that the Conservatives prefer in-fighting about Europe to being in power.

...plus he'd be having to take a view on the land as it lies in 2017 from 2013 - very high risk.

He'll be asked the question every day for 5 years and it's going to become a little tedious to hear him saying he wants to listen to both sides of the argument before deciding.

It's just politics - interesting politics but politics nonetheless.

StevieJ

Looks like The Tories and UKIP have found some allies in the French, 70% of them want to see the UK leave the EU

Masomnia

StevieJ wrote: »

Looks like The Tories and UKIP have found some allies in the French, 70% of them want to see the UK leave the EU

Not surprising given that they didn't want us to join in the first place!

Maybe we should stay in just to spite them

Linton

For the next 5 years how many global businesses will want to invest in the UK with the uncertainty in our relationship with the EU? France is already preparing to take advantage of the situation. And it doesnt help Cameron in his main objective as the fundamental split in the Tory party is dragged out longer with no sign of any resolution.

How can anyone believe it is anything other than a badly thought-through strategy by a weak leader

ash28

Graham_Devon wrote: »

We face a real propsect now, and this is what interests me. I'd like a vote, I've made that clear, it's never been offered to me, and neither has real proper information. I'm just expected to pay in. At the moment, I'd likely vote to stay in, BUT, I'd rather have a vote based on a proper renogotiation. If the EU will not negotiate, I think we'd be better out, considering the way the EU is moving towards political governance over and above fiscal governance. That is a highly scary prospect to me and just shows the EU isn't about involving countries, it's about ruling them.

The key problem for me, now, lies here...

Either we vote for a conservative government and get the referendum. OR we vote for labour, and get Ed Milliand and Ed Balls running the country.

I'm not sure what would be more disasterous. The scare stories actually playing out if we got a referendum and came out of the EU, or Ed Milliband and Ed Balls running the country. Those two running the country could be more disasterous than the scare stories about coming out of the EU.

Can anyone seriously imagine Ed Milliband next to Obama in a crisis or negotiating situation? He'd simply do whatever he was told to do. And Ed Balls as chancellor? Up against EU chancellors? Blimey.

It doesn't inspire me with confidence that this is our best choice right now. The other option would be a Lib/Lab pact, which, considering the lib dems record to date, and Ed and Ed jostling in with no clawback from the tories, well, it doesn't bear thinking about.

Why do you think you will get a referendum if the Conservatives win the next election?

Didn't Cameron say a referendum was dependent on negotiations with the EU? If those negotiations are successful then we will have a referendum.

The next Conservative Manifesto in 2015 will ask for a mandate from the British people for a Conservative Government to negotiate a new settlement with our European partners in the next Parliament.
It will be a relationship with the Single Market at its heart.
And when we have negotiated that new settlement, we will give the British people a referendum with a very simple in or out choice. To stay in the EU on these new terms; or come out altogether.
It will be an in-out referendum.
Legislation will be drafted before the next election. And if a Conservative Government is elected we will introduce the enabling legislation immediately and pass it by the end of that year. And we will complete this negotiation and hold this referendum within the first half of the next parliament.
It is time for the British people to have their say. It is time to settle this European question in British politics.
I say to the British people: this will be your decision

That's his get out of jail card.....we don't know what those negotiations are or will be and don't know how success will be measured.

What happens if a new settlement isn't reached? From his speech today that seems to mean no referendum.

Can we really have Europe A la Carte and just pick the bits we like.

Graham_Devon

What's been said is a referendum WILL take place.

However, negotiations will take place first. If the negotiations don't work, the referendum will still take place.

Infact, it would be frankly absurd for any party to state they will only have a referendum so long as the results favour them. That's worse than denying a referendum at all, and it's not what Cameron has stated.