We WILL get an EU referendum

Conrad

ValHaller wrote: »

This will do nothing for European competitiveness. This is all about Cameron pandering to 'Brussels is telling us what to do'

Cameron is leading the charge on regaining European competetivness. He recognises very high unemployment is in large part down to lack of competetive labour markets. The world does not owe Europe an entitlment premium. We need to trade some rights in favour of gaining more jobs and real prosperity.

Someone like Douglas Alexander is a weak coat tail hanger, going along with the crowd.

wotsthat

Conrad wrote: »

Cameron is leading the charge on regaining European competetivness.

It becomes clearer if you assume this whole thing has nothing to do with the EU and our relationship with it.

mystic_trev

Conrad wrote: »

I'd probably be happy to stay in a reformed EU but I wouldn't be worried by us exiting either because I just know we'd pull through and quite possibly even prosper out of it, for example by offering global investors a lean less regulated business enviroment on Europes door step.

Japan, Taiwan, S Korea and all the others trade perfectly well with the world as individual nations.

I kind of agree. The UK's always been an Island Nation, never really been 'part' of the rest of Europe. That said, I'd prefer we stayed in a reformed EU.

Graham_Devon

ValHaller wrote: »

You call this leadership? And then you call me a coat tail hanger?

This will do nothing for European competitiveness. This is all about Cameron pandering to 'Brussels is telling us what to do' and playing the opt out game. It is the Wrong Kind of negotiation to do anything for Europe as a whole.

So what is leadership then?

Giving up and rolling over to the EU and all it's demands without a whimper?

Graham_Devon

wotsthat wrote: »

Seems a little odd - he's very keen to give the public a voice and it's a simple in/ out question. You'd think he'd want to get on with it rather than waiting years.

Maybe he's hoping to have bought sufficient time to carefully plan the U-turn this time?

How can he do that within a coaliton?

wotsthat

Graham_Devon wrote: »

How can he do that within a coaliton?

So to add to...

- DC staying in charge of the Conservatives
- Conservatives winning the next general election
- Negotiations with the EU taking place

No referendum can take place if the Conservatives find themselves in a coalition either?

The list of ifs and buts is getting longer.

Why can't the referendum be in May 2015 - will save money having to opening polling stations twice.

N1AK

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Ed Milliband has now attacked the PM for promising this as "weak" and not acting in the national interest.

What the *** is this guy on!? What can be more in the national interest than offering true democracy!?

It's politics on both sides. Cameron is offering the referendum because he knows it is popular and not doing so could lead to UKIP slicing off a large chunk of the conservative vote at the next election if he didn't. Farage will whine but he'll likely avoid contests that could turn a conservative win into a labour one at the next election now, especially as Eurosceptic voters can now vote conservative to get a referendum anyway.

Milliband is playing politics by attacking whatever the government does.

I'm pro-EU membership and am confident I will be voting to remain in it when the referendum finally comes however I still believe the referendum is a good thing.

There was a risk to business of the UK leaving Europe in the future whether a referendum was promised now or not. Arguably handling it on terms that suit pro-EU membership terms makes more sense than pretending the issue will go away if we refuse to let people vote for long enough; and they get angry and more likely to protest vote the longer that goes on for.

All the people attacking Cameron for offering a referendum are living in some alternative reality where the best solution would be putting our fingers in our ears, singing loudly and waiting.

N1AK

wotsthat wrote: »

So to add to...

- DC staying in charge of the Conservatives
- Conservatives winning the next general election
- Negotiations with the EU taking place

No referendum can take place if the Conservatives find themselves in a coalition either?

A pretty pointless list. If the conservatives win then DC will be in charge. Even if somehow they won and he wasn't then there's no way they'd back out of a manifesto pledge on this as it'd be suicide.

There's no way they'll be able to avoid the referendum because they didn't negotiate or couldn't because again it would be suicide.

Even the conservatives winning is a dubious risk as I'm not sure Labour will dare go the the polls in 2015 without promising it as well. Refusing to give people a vote on EU won't win any votes and it'll certainly cost them some.

Finally, obviously a coalition may change things if one of the parties will not agree but how likely is that. The only viable options are Lib Dems or UKIP and both of those are highly unlikely.

You may as well add the world ending, being invaded by North Korea and Europe not existing by 2017 to your list if you want to make it an exhaustive list of unlikely events

wotsthat

N1AK wrote: »

A pretty pointless list. If the conservatives win then DC will be in charge. Even if somehow they won and he wasn't then there's no way they'd back out of a manifesto pledge on this as it'd be suicide.

It's David Cameron's list - not mine.

Wookster

ash28 wrote: »

I'm not against a referendum, but based on what he said today I wouldn't be surprised if in reality there wasn't one.

What he hasn't said is "if the Conservatives win the next election there will definitely be a referendum - no ifs buts or maybes". He's made it conditional on the success of future negotiations. He hasn't said what would happen if those negotiations fail.

He has not said conditions on it. He has said clearly that there will be a referendum if he is PM after the next election and that a referendum will be a deal breaker in a coalition agreement.

He could not have been clearer on this.

It does make sense as the folks in Europe have shown time and time again that they will only move under the barrel of a gun (or financial market).