We WILL get an EU referendum

MacMickster

Politically, Call Me Dave has been manoeuvered into this by both his own party and UKIP. I would have been far more impressed if this pledge was down to a personal conviction in seeing democracy in action.

This will certainly put more pressure on the coalition, and makes an early election rather more likely. This may actually favour the Conservatives as Europe will remain at the forefront of the debate. I suspect that if the election is not held for another 2 years then the economy will have jumped back to both the front pages of the newspapers and the main topic of pub conversation.

nicko33

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Largely because we cut too far, too fast

Have there been any cuts yet?
Has public spending gone down?

shortchanged_2

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

It's coming up on 6 years Graham.

Which makes this the worst recovery from a recession in UK history.

Largely because we cut too far, too fast, and didn't invest in economic growth as the US did. Their recovery is much stronger, because they've continued spending throughout, including now providing unlimited QE to the housing market.

I've frequently posted articles from a Nobel Prize winning economist pointing out this fact. This is not a new position for me at all.

The US also had a proper house price correction which is something that is definately holding the UK economy back.

Wookster

shortchanged wrote: »

The US also had a proper house price correction which is something that is definately holding the UK economy back.

Hamish has a conveniently short memory when it comes to facts.

gorgeyetsun

Generali wrote: »

I support the UK being in the EU but I think the referendum is a good idea for exactly the reasons DC states: lots of Brits hate being in the EU and feel that they are part of an unheard majority. If you give them a voice, you remove part of the grievance.

This also holds for the referrendum over whether Scotland stays in the Union. People get to air their views and once the votes are counted, the issue will die away for another generation or so. Perhaps if we had a referendum in NI about leaving the union in the 70's/80's we would could have had a peace accord much sooner?

The decision to join the EU was not made by my generation or the one after mine. Why should we continue to be held by a decision made so long ago? I think that we should introduce 'generational' referendums for all of the major decisions - joining/leaving the EU, introducing the death penalty, leaving the UK, leaving/joining the political asylum agreement, etc.

wotsthat

I thought David Cameron made a reasonable speech given his awkward position - he needs to bring both sides of the debate in his own party on board. There's a risk that neither side will be happy though. That's about it really - politics - EU membership is secondary to DC's desire to keep his job.

Hopefully by 2017 some of the problems in Europe and the UK will be well on the way to being resolved so a referendum can held without the background of crisis getting in the way of sensible debate.

drc

It's completely meaningless.

Firstly, Cameron has already promised a "cast iron" guarantee on a referendum before which came to nought.

Secondly, he is offering a referendum at the end of 2017 so 5 years away. By that time, much more damage will be done and it will be a case of shutting the door after the horse has bolted.

Thirdly, is the likelihood that the Tories won't even be in power, so basically he is not risking anything.

Fourthly, it is evident that the powers that be, both Tories and Labour, do not want the UK to leave the EU and will do an Ireland, finding a way of getting the result they want, regardless of what the citizens of the UK want.

There seems to be very little to distinguish Labour and The Tories these days.

Out,_Vile_Jelly

I actually thought the speech was quite good, and I'm no Tory voter or Cameron fan. What are the options available to the UK PM?

1. In/out referendum now
2. No referendum in the foreseeable future
3. Renegotiation of sorts followed by referendum

1. Represents fear of UKIP and the worst kind of shrill tabloid hysteria
2. Represents an illiberal, patronising nanny state attitude
3. Sounds a bit more of a sensible compromise

Politicians and political journalists often forget that Britain is by and large a sensible, small c conservative place peopled by those who don't like a big fuss. I think Cameron has struck the right note by pointing out the benefits of the EU for the UK, and highlighting the areas that clearly need reform.

Aberdeenangarse

I've been away at my place in Portugal for the last couple of months. i see things haven't changed much in that time

Our (other) Aberdeen correspondent posts.



Whilst his friend from Devon posts.



Yes folks, it's still Mads Army!

:rotfl:

Mr._Pricklepants

Aberdeenangarse wrote: »

I've been away at my place in Portugal for the last couple of months.

Of course you were, Dribley.