We WILL get an EU referendum

Graham_Devon

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

GDP still 3% below what it was in 2007

A complete failure to fix the economy

A million FTB-s frozen out from buying thanks to mortgage rationing

Snuffing out the recovery they inherited with the wrong cuts, in the wrong places

Needlessly destroying consumer confidence with pointless pronouncements of Austerity

Utterly failing to fix the banks and broken lending system, and instead making it worse

U turn after U turn after U turn, and failed policy after failed policy.

You have rose tinted glasses on Conrad.

So you seriously expect, after 2-3 years, for GDP to be fixed!? Even though your beloved EU is suffering just as much!?!

Snuffing out the recovery!? Did you honestly think there was one? And if so, howcome the "recovery" in the EU has also been snuffed out?!

Mortgage rationing is now the fault of the tories?

Destroying consumer confidence?! What a crock of brown stuff Hamish. Confidence is one thing, but it doesn't invent money for families to spend. You sound like woodbine.

How have they made the banks worse?

I have honestly given you more credit than you deserved. This referendum has you reduced to this. You've pretty much gone full turn on everything you have said about the tories and everything you said about labour on the announcement of a referendum promise.

A._Badger

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Nonsense.

There will be no negotiation.

Cameron, and Britain, would be humiliated by the refusal of the EU to negotiate anything meaningful, and we'd look like a petulant child sulking as the government of the day frantically U-turned on the wording to make sure we stayed in anyway.

And that is the sort of organisation you wish to be ruled by?

This Fifty Shades Of Grey craze is going too far, if you ask me.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

globalds wrote: »

It is the people who word the choices, who seem to have the real power in referendums.

Precisely.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

A._Badger wrote: »

And that is the sort of organisation you wish to be ruled by?

We are not ruled by the EU. We are a part of the EU.

A distinction you should learn.

Graham_Devon

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Nonsense.

There will be no negotiation.

Cameron, and Britain, would be humiliated by the refusal of the EU to negotiate anything meaningful, and we'd look like a petulant child sulking as the government of the day frantically U-turned on the wording to make sure we stayed in anyway.

And for the next 4-5 years, the uncertainty over our future will cost us billions in lost inward investment and tens or hundreds of thousands of jobs.

And all this, in a desperate effort to court votes from the far right in a vain and futile attempt not to lose an election that is already lost for them.

It's politics of the worst, shallowest, and most self serving kind, that puts at risk the economy and job creating at the worst possible time.

Absolutely unforgivable.

If you read the guardian comments, he's actually stolen some left votes too. They want a say, and some want all to have a say.

BobQ

A._Badger wrote: »

The political classes in general and, most notably, pundits from the media - notably the Europhile loons at the BBC, Indie, Grauniad, FT et al

Originally Posted by A. Badger

It is very revealing how many of those who are now so terrified of even the prospect of our leaving the EU were vocal advocates of our joining the Euro.

Yes but which members of the pollitical classes are you citing?

I may have forgotten, but as I recall its been a consistent Government Policy since the days of Thatcher not to join the Euro.

Do you think these assorted unelected pundits really matter a jot?

Graham_Devon

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

We are not ruled by the EU. We are a part of the EU.

A distinction you should learn.

If were part of it, surely we should be able to negotiate within it?

If we're part of it, surely we should have our say within it?

A._Badger

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

We are not ruled by the EU. We are a part of the EU.

A distinction you should learn.

No, Hamish. That is utter tripe. It is even worse than tripe - it is a downright lie, albeit one you have chosen to believe in. We do what we are told by the EU and have but a small say in what those decisions are and little (if any) sanction over those that damage us.

That is being ruled.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Graham_Devon wrote: »

So you seriously expect, after 2-3 years, for GDP to be fixed!? .

It's coming up on 6 years Graham.

Which makes this the worst recovery from a recession in UK history.

Largely because we cut too far, too fast, and didn't invest in economic growth as the US did. Their recovery is much stronger, because they've continued spending throughout, including now providing unlimited QE to the housing market.

I've frequently posted articles from a Nobel Prize winning economist pointing out this fact. This is not a new position for me at all.

A._Badger

BobQ wrote: »

[/I]

Yes but which members of the pollitical classes are you citing?

I may have forgotten, but as I recall its been a consistent Government Policy since the days of Thatcher not to join the Euro.

Do you think these assorted unelected pundits really matter a jot?

Yes, I do. The Clarkes, Mandelsons, Heseltines and the CBI crowd would have had us in the Euro like a shot. Their allies in the 'progressive' media were right behind them, too.

Do I believe these people have an influence? Why, yes. And I also believe bears defecate in the woods, too.