We WILL get an EU referendum

Graham_Devon

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

It's coming up on 6 years Graham.

Which makes this the worst recovery from a recession in UK history.

Largely because we cut too far, too fast, and didn't invest in economic growth as the US did. Their recovery is much stronger, because they've continued spending throughout, including now providing unlimited QE to the housing market.

I've frequently posted articles from a Nobel Prize winning economist pointing out this fact. This is not a new position for me at all.

Yes, 6 years. But 2-3 years of the coalition at the helm, which was of course, your point, which you've decided to try and twist.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

A._Badger wrote: »

We do what we are told by the EU and have but a small say in what those decisions are and little (if any) sanction over those that damage us.

That is being ruled.

Nonsense.

That is being part of a democratic system.

Are you saying Yorkshire is ruled by the UK?

A._Badger

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Nonsense.

That is being part of a democratic system.

Are you saying Yorkshire is ruled by the UK?

I think we need to club together and buy Hamish a dictionary. His definition of 'democracy' seems to have got lost along the way. Anyone who seriously believes the EU Commission is democratic is lost to reason..

Graham_Devon

Jeez, some of the guardian comments are wishing Cameron dead now.

I've never been so engrossed in a comment section. It's insult after insult. They are even concluding he want's a dictatorship in this country by leaving the EU. I'm not sure why people are quite so angry about others having the chance of a say. Before this, guardian comments were absolutely !!!! sure the electorate would vote to stay in the EU.

Also, I'm not sure if a lot of them are just angry that politically, Cameron has pulled a blinder, and will leave labour with no option but to match the pledge, going against everything they have so far said.

It's either matching it, or stating they won't give people a choice. Neither is great for labour.

"He just wants to be relected, it's absolutely disgusting" - Erm, he;ll only get relected if the majority want it.....

Generali

I support the UK being in the EU but I think the referendum is a good idea for exactly the reasons DC states: lots of Brits hate being in the EU and feel that they are part of an unheard majority. If you give them a voice, you remove part of the grievance.

Of course, many pro-EU people will be against a referendum as they are the ones benefitting from the status quo!

Masomnia

I think I would grudgingly vote for the status quo, rather than leaving outright, but that isn't really an option.

Europe is moving towards federalism, fiscal union is the next step. They seem to actually be quite open about that. I don't think being part of a federal Europe is to our advantage, however. Bit pointless to speculate on what the landscape will be in 2017, especially considering the negotiations that are wanted from our side. If it was between part of a federal Europe or something like the EFTA then I'd probably vote for the latter.

Generali

Masomnia wrote: »

I think I would grudgingly vote for the status quo, rather than leaving outright, but that isn't really an option.

Europe is moving towards federalism, fiscal union is the next step. They seem to actually be quite open about that. I don't think being part of a federal Europe is to our advantage, however. Bit pointless to speculate on what the landscape will be in 2017, especially considering the negotiations that are wanted from our side. If it was between part of a federal Europe or something like the EFTA then I'd probably vote for the latter.

You might as well vote for fiscal union. The UK is as bust as France and Greece when it comes to long term pension and healthcare promises. It's when not if.

Le73Uq86Uv

The only reason the Cons want to get out of europe is because they can't take those rights away from plebs.

If we leave the EU you will see how your rights will be diluted.

Sampong

What Cameron is actually saying is "vote for me in the next election - or else. Or else you won't get a referendum. Even though I know that you know I have lied to you in the past I am so arrogant I think I can get away with holding you to ransom, forcing you to vote for me if you want your say on Europe".

Moby

Cameron is taking a huge gamble with this speech. He seems to have been forced into making it.
1. He is assuming he will get agreement within Europe regarding the return of powers to our parliament?
2. He's assuming that he'll be able to keep his own Europhobe headbangers in line meantime?
3. He's then assuming that if he achieves the above two and wins the next election....he'll get people to vote in favour of rermaining in Europe?

There are an awful lot of ifs and buts there!