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We WILL get an EU referendum
Comments
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What Cameron had to say - and the faux pas of planning to give the speech on Monday indicates that there have been no meaningful discussions behind the scenes. Cameron is fronting a vacuum.
There's a new European Treaty on its way in the future. Which will pave the way for a more integrated Europe. The idea being pushed forward from Germany. Received luke warm support from Ireland and Poland. As both will be required to hold referendum on the subject.
So there's nothing to chew on at the moment. Merely hot air without substance.
Camerons 5 year window allows ample time to see what developes within Europe.0 -
More & more this looks like (uncharacterstically) a brilliant move by Cameron. Labour have been utterly outmaneouvred. Their choices now are to abandon their beliefs AND be seen to just meekly copy the Tories, by promising a referendum, or to stick to the disastrous policy of NOT agreeing they'll have one.
Meanwhile Cameron gets to attempt to negotiate a better deal off the back of the rest of Europe knowing he's not simply bluffing - if the Tories win the only way the UK would stay in Europe is if the electorate like whatever gets agreed.
You are getting delusional.
Cameron has gone the way of Clegg. Selling his principles to the highest bidders. This is all about survival of the Tory Party. On the one hand he talks tough for them, on the other he says that he wants to remain in the EU.
Clegg seems very principled on this issue at least, its Cameron who has changed to hold his party together. But this is not stastemanship its playing politics and risking our national interest by deterring investors from remaining in the UK.
Milliband has a valid position. A referendum if there are any plans to transfer more power to Brussels. Its sound because it was Cameron's position for the past two years.
The EU is changing as we speak, Cameron's posing is so irrelevant. It will morph into something else. Yesterday we could have influenced that process now they will just ignore us.
Cameron may have done something to save his party from falling apart before the next election, but as a statesman he has no credibility at all. Even Clegg looks more statesmanlike than him.Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are incapable of forming such opinions.0 -
I agree the Tories are bitterly split on whether we should be in or out of Europe. But that's not the same thing as being bitterly split on whether we should have a referendum on whether we should be in or out of Europe.
There's no reasonable argument to be made against having a referendum at least, and I think most Tory MPs will be OK with it if it looks like increasing their chances at the next election.
If they did win the election I'm sure there would be huge in-fighting as the referendum approached. Unless by then the EU is such a basket-case that even the wets are happy to leave.
LOL A referendum is the gle holding them together. They are united by the strength of the glue. He is already trying defend this "marvellous" policy. Nobody but his party is listening.Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are incapable of forming such opinions.0 -
Cameron has gone the way of Clegg. Selling his principles to the highest bidders.
Lolol do you really think any of our 600-odd MPs has principles they wouldn't sell to the highest bidder? Assuming you're over 12 years old I really hope not.
There may be people who go into politics like that but they aren't the ones who make it to be MPs. By definition, it's the ones with least principles who get to the top for the simple reason that they're prepared to do anything in order to do so.0 -
Cameron may have done something to save his party from falling apart before the next election, but as a statesman he has no credibility at all. Even Clegg looks more statesmanlike than him.
Sad, but true.
A desperate and shallow attempt to pull votes back from UKIP.“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
Graham_Devon wrote: »Not just talking about you, but the band of merry lefties who do this time after time.
Now, now Graham. You ought to take the advice of this chap who posted on this thread earlier...Graham_Devon wrote: »If you cannot open your mind because of your party policital allegiances, that's fine, but we can't have a proper debate based on that.
It's just predjuice being put forward, not logical thoughts.0 -
spacey2012 wrote: »Yes an absolutely unequivocal cast Iron promise of a referendum. :rotfl:
If they were elected as a single party. If you didn't notice, both coalition partners haven't enacted all policies. Remember cleggys pathetic grovelling to the students when they introduced increased tuition fees?0 -
Lolol do you really think any of our 600-odd MPs has principles they wouldn't sell to the highest bidder? Assuming you're over 12 years old I really hope not.
There may be people who go into politics like that but they aren't the ones who make it to be MPs. By definition, it's the ones with least principles who get to the top for the simple reason that they're prepared to do anything in order to do so.
There is a difference between compromise and selling your principles.
I agree not many MPs these days have principles. John Bercow and Dennis Skinner perhaps but not many.Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are incapable of forming such opinions.0 -
There is a difference between compromise and selling your principles.
I agree not many MPs these days have principles. John Bercow and Dennis Skinner perhaps but not many.
John Bercow?! You must be kidding!
Just for starters there's this:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/9678200/John-Bercow-and-his-bullies-bring-shame-on-our-Parliament.html
Just one small part of that article is his own expenses disgrace:
The Buckinghamshire MP had “flipped” the designation of his main and second homes between London and his constituency, and designated each as his main home at the time he sold it. This meant he paid no capital gains tax on either sale. When the facts came out, Bercow insisted he had done nothing wrong. He announced, nevertheless, that he would “voluntarily” pay the sum of £6,508 plus interest to the Inland Revenue, reflecting the tax which he could have been required to pay in respect of the sale of one of the two houses.
In ordinary life, this kind of behaviour would have been regarded with disgust, and disqualified him from responsible office. In the House of Commons, by contrast, Bercow’s greed and amorality presented no impediment to one of the highest, and in theory the most honourable, offices in the land.
Denis Skinner I agree with. I a million times prefer someone like him, who is honest in his beliefs whether you agree with them or not, to the vast majority of MPs.0
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