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We WILL get an EU referendum
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Just out of curiosity, do you not feel just the tiniest bit stupid calling Cameron "Posh boy Dave" when Miliband lives in a £2million+ house & him & his partner earn more than a quarter of a million a year between them? Hardly one of the common people is he.
As far as I can see the only difference between the two of them posh-wise is that Cameron doesn't try to hide it wheras Miliband pretends to represent "hardworking families".
Don't expect to see Miliband moving into a nice little 2-bed semi in Hackney anytime soon.
And then you have Tony Blair. Probably richer than both of them put together.0 -
Cameron and Osborne certainly hold their funds in Sterling, while clever Tony Bliar probably holds his funds in Euros, which have gone up 5% against Sterling this year month so far...0
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GeorgeHowell wrote: »That's exactly the Labour party line and it's nonsense. It was public opinion as evidenced by UKIP's surge that drove it as much as anything happening in the Tory party. There is a clear poll majority for coming out of the Eu.
As things stand people who vote Labour at the next election are consigning themselves to the prospect of being drawn into the federal superstate, irrevocably, because it is "in the national interests" with no referendum "not in the national interests", and with nothing they can do about it. That realisation may divert a lot of Labour voters to UKIP, or to staying at home.
Exactly. There are certain people who will alway vote Tory & certain people who will always vote Labour. The ones who might vote for either are who win the election so it's those we're concerned with. The Tories offering a referendum can affect their votes in two ways.
A - Some will vote Tory because they want an EU referendum.
B - Some won't vote Tory because they are so desparate to stay in Europe that even the prospect of a referendum on the matter is intolerable to them.
IMO it's laughable to suggest that group B will outnumber group A. The people on this board are not a typical cross-section of the public. In real life you generally meet two types of people, those who hate being in the EU & those who don't care. I don't think I've ever met a single person who was passionate about staying in.
I think that's what the Tories are belatedly realising.0 -
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That really is a silly response. I thought that UKIP wasnt racist despite what David Cameron may say. The point is surely that those two parties are the only ones whose official party policy is to leave the EU. Unlike the Tories for which this is the official policy of only half the party.
David Cameron once called them full of fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists. That was six years ago and a lot of water has passed under the bridge including the majority of the country becoming Eurosceptic and UKIP reaching double figures in the polls. Certainly all the major parties have racist supporters. Still calling UKIP racist stems from them speaking out against the level of immigration. Some of the left can't leave behind this tired and discredited old jibe which served them so well when Blair and Campbell peddled it, which aided and abetted by the BBC and a weak opposition took immigration off the political agenda for a while. And we know how well that served the country don't we.
The official Tory party policy is to stay in the EU after a successful renegotiation of terms and a referendum. I have not heard anybody serious in the Tory party refute that since Wednesday's speech. UKIP has to say otherwise because it's whole existence depends on it differentiating itself from the Conservatives.No-one would remember the Good Samaritan if he'd only had good intentions. He had money as well.
The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.
Margaret Thatcher0 -
That really is a silly response. I thought that UKIP wasnt racist despite what David Cameron may say. The point is surely that those two parties are the only ones whose official party policy is to leave the EU. Unlike the Tories for which this is the official policy of only half the party.
BNP quite clearly is racist though.0 -
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article3667906.ece
Obviously you hang around with the !!!!!! section of society with the low IQ's who Hamish thinks shouldn't be allowed to vote.
They must be !!!!!! because the Labour lead increased since that speech
http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2013/01/24/first-poll-since-cameron-eu-pledge-sees-labour-rise-two-poinLabour appears to be the main beneficiaries of David Cameron's speech promising an EU referendum yesterday.
In the first poll since the speech was made, Labour climbed two points to 43% while the Tories were unchanged on 31%.'Just think for a moment what a prospect that is. A single market without barriers visible or invisible giving you direct and unhindered access to the purchasing power of over 300 million of the worlds wealthiest and most prosperous people' Margaret Thatcher0 -
GeorgeHowell wrote: »David Cameron once called them full of fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists. That was six years ago and a lot of water has passed under the bridge including the majority of the country becoming Eurosceptic and UKIP reaching double figures in the polls. Certainly all the major parties have racist supporters. Still calling UKIP racist stems from them speaking out against the level of immigration. Some of the left can't leave behind this tired and discredited old jibe which served them so well when Blair and Campbell peddled it, which aided and abetted by the BBC and a weak opposition took immigration off the political agenda for a while. And we know how well that served the country don't we.
The official Tory party policy is to stay in the EU after a successful renegotiation of terms and a referendum. I have not heard anybody serious in the Tory party refute that since Wednesday's speech. UKIP has to say otherwise because it's whole existence depends on it differentiating itself from the Conservatives.
You changed your views? Are you now in favour in principle of remaining in the EU subject to a matter of negotiations on specifics? Persuasive chappy that David Cameron.
As regards "anyone serious" advocating leaving the EU, it's only been 2 days. Give them time.0
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