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We WILL get an EU referendum
Comments
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Graham_Devon wrote: »Why is it that everytime you are proven wrong, you suggest others have been fooled?
Not just talking about you, but the band of merry lefties who do this time after time.
It's called denial. If they lived in the real world they wouldn't be lefties.No-one would remember the Good Samaritan if he'd only had good intentions. He had money as well.
The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.
Margaret Thatcher0 -
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spacey2012 wrote: »Yes an absolutely unequivocal cast Iron promise of a referendum. :rotfl:
...about whether to sign a treaty that Brown rushed to sign before the election took place, breaking Labour's own referendum promise.
But let's not let the facts stand in the way of a good story.No-one would remember the Good Samaritan if he'd only had good intentions. He had money as well.
The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.
Margaret Thatcher0 -
That'll be the referendum and the negotiations we get after the Tories win the next election.Graham_Devon wrote: »Honestly, on this forum, within a week we have gone from a position of:
- There won't be a referendum (now there is one)
- There won't be negotiation (now there is)
- The negotition won't prove meaningful (we'll see, thoug it's getting a little boring).
Merkel is doing us (lefties) a favour by inviting Cameron to negotiate. 'Cos he won't want to before the election. And it will be silly all the way. Either he becomes too shy to ask or he asks for the moon on a stick or he asks for a cherry on a stick. For us alone.
He needs to negotiate for cherries on a stick for everyone on which he stands a good chance. But his party will hate him if he gets that, it has to be a special cherry for britain.You might as well ask the Wizard of Oz to give you a big number as pay a Credit Referencing Agency for a so-called 'credit-score'0 -
I always knew you were a closet leftie.GeorgeHowell wrote: »It's called denial. If they lived in the real world they wouldn't be lefties.You might as well ask the Wizard of Oz to give you a big number as pay a Credit Referencing Agency for a so-called 'credit-score'0 -
I always knew you were a closet leftie.
You know, for many years I have tried to comprehend the leftie mentality. I have come up with the following as the principle causal factors :- class prejudice, envy, chip on shoulder/sense of grievance, dog in the manger outlook, sense of entitlement, control freakery, disaffected personality, desire to level down rather than build up
.... as an expert please tell me, have I missed anything ?No-one would remember the Good Samaritan if he'd only had good intentions. He had money as well.
The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.
Margaret Thatcher0 -
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. JK Galbraith. It's someone's sig here.GeorgeHowell wrote: ».... as an expert please tell me, have I missed anything ?
There's a desire to level things up and prevent exploitation. To be fair on you, I think you too are motivated to prevent it to some degree but by separation. So you are welcome in my leftie club provided you disagree with me.You might as well ask the Wizard of Oz to give you a big number as pay a Credit Referencing Agency for a so-called 'credit-score'0 -
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. JK Galbraith. It's someone's sig here.
There's a desire to level things up and prevent exploitation. To be fair on you, I think you too are motivated to prevent it to some degree but by separation. So you are welcome in my leftie club provided you disagree with me.
Preventing exploitation is a hopeless and futile cause in an inevitably heirarchical society -- and all societies are that. Only the worst excesses can be prevented, up to a point. Take it further and the baby goes out with the bathwater -- the price paid in loss of incentive for wealth creation is not balanced by marginal improvements in what is perceived as fairness. People are not generally intelligent or far sighted enough to successfully plan the way societies progress. You have let things take their course as far as possible and deal with predictable events and consequences as they arise.No-one would remember the Good Samaritan if he'd only had good intentions. He had money as well.
The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.
Margaret Thatcher0 -
Maybe Labour will offer their own EU negotiations and referendum to the British people, one that doesn't include selling individual rights down the river. Maybe the EU then signal to the British people that they can see the benefits in the Labour proposals, just a thought
So I say that Labour only has two options one of which is to meekly copy the Tories. And you say they have a 3rd option, to offer EU negotiations & a referendum.
:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:
Would love to know in what universe you think that wouldn't be seen as meekly copying the Tories.
Labour were relying on Cameron being too pro-Europe to offer a referendum & have been caught napping good & proper.0 -
Some are so naive. He's promised a referendum in 5 years after negotiations about a new relationship with Europe. The issue is what will come out of those negotiations? and more explicitly will we believe Cameron's presentation of the deal that he 'gains'?
He has explicitly said that he wants to stay in Europe......so he has an agenda to talk up any deal that he 'achieves'. Will you believe his 'deal'?:rotfl:
He will then apparently campaign 'enthusiastically' with Milliband and Clegg to stay in Europe after this so called deal is achieved?????:rotfl:
Furthermore people want different things from Europe. Will he be trying to repatriate powers that suit business or the general population or the colonel Blimps in his own party?:rotfl:
If the French and Germans don't let him get the 'deal' that he wants or more accurately one that he can sell. Will he then recommend that we leave the EU in any referendum?:rotfl:
If he is forced to recommend that we leave the EU...despite this being against his future hopes.....surely he will be dead as a dodo. Our relationship with Europe will be bitter and angry because he will have failed to achieve his objectives and there will be fallout...make no mistake!:rotfl:
That speech had more holes in it that a sieve. He has left so many hostages to fortune and he has lost control of the agenda. He has made a huge mistake and is now a hostage of the headbangers in his own party. He will now be easier to stereotype as a Colonel Blimp type. It will be interesting to watch this thing develop over the next five years. The sad reality is though is that the political classes will be insulated against the fallout....whereas the rest of us won't be:eek:
This assumes he wins tha next election, i'm sure he'll he happy enough just for that, I sure will be. I've seen the alternatives!0
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