Immigrants & Benefits

BertieUK

GeorgeHowell wrote: »

You don't have to have unrestricted free movement for a viable free trade regime. Cameron should negotiate this away -- but I bet he can't.

The only solution would be the sort of associate EU membership idea, where we could get rid of an immense amount of B/S that is disadvantageous to the country, like unrestricted immigration, but keep the free trade aspect. It will all come down to money in the end and will depend on what it would cost us. The EU might ultimately go for that rather than lose our net contribution.

Just a shame that Cameron and Co could not appoint someone like you as an advisor then the country would see them under a different light.

And I am NOT being facetious I can assure you;)

Sampong

BertieUK wrote: »

Thank's for that...So really we can't blame people who want to try and better their lives by coming here we opened the gates for them but as far as I am concerned it should not be at our cost.

You are correct - it is no fault of migrants that we are part of this crazy open border policy - for this the blame lies solely with the Government.

However all humans are responsible for their own behavior, so for the increase in Crime and Antisocial behavior, we can blame the government and the migrants.

That is not to say that all migrants engage in such behavior before anyone starts jumping up and down and shouting "bigot".

But there is a disproportionate amount of crime attributed to EU migration.

Example; http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/8439117/EU-migrants-commit-500-crimes-a-week-in-UK.html#

The cost of dealing with all this is never included in the "reports" that Hamish keeps posting here. In fact the Government don't even know how many migrants are in Britain, so no "report" can be accurate -people like Dr Mary Beard who appeared on QT last night are completely out of touch with what is really going on - they just read paperwork generated from incorrect data.

It doesn't matter how long a report took to produce;

rubbish in = rubbish out.......

Yet still people like Hamish seem to think it is great that we can go and work anywhere in the EU if we want to. Who on earth wants to go to Romania to earn a fraction of what they can do here?

MS1950

GeorgeHowell wrote: »

You don't have to have unrestricted free movement for a viable free trade regime. Cameron should negotiate this away -- but I bet he can't.

So 'capital' and 'goods' should be able to move freely across borders but not 'labour' - wouldn't be much of 'free market' would it?

Sampong

MS1950 wrote: »

So 'capital' and 'goods' should be able to move freely across borders but not 'labour' - wouldn't be much of 'free market' would it?

Do they have English supervisors in factories in Europe?

Do they have 1000's of English immigrants undercutting the workforce in Europe?

Do they have to wait to get doctor and dentist appointments because of an influx of 1,000's of English people in their towns in Europe?

Do local taxpayers cough up to have leaflets and road signs printed in English in Europe?

Do they have organisations explaining to 1000's of English people how to claim benefits in Europe?

Do the local maternity units in towns have a 40% birthrate to English women in Europe?

Are the local papers full of court cases involving English immigrants in Europe?

Do the EU taxpayers pay benefits for the 1000's of children left behind in England by their mothers?

Do the 1000's of English immigrants set up illegal campsites,urinate and defacate all over and eat the fish,swans and ducks in Europe?

Are there 1000's of English immigrants driving around in untaxed and uninsured cars in Europe?

Does any English women with 10 kids claim £35,000 a year in benefits in Europe?

Do the 1000's of English immigrants jump the queue for council housing in Europe?

Does the taxpayer foot the bill for translators for the 1000's of immigrants in Europe?

Do they have English off-licenses,cafes,pubs,nightclubs and shops replacing local businesses in Europe?

Do the taxpayers in Europe give £50million a day to the EU for the privilege of seeing their country overrun by immigrants?

Do the 1000's of English immigrants children hold back the local kids education in schools in Europe?

Do they have work agencies specialising in English workers only in Europe?

Do they advertise jobs where English must be spoken in Europe?...

No, of course they don't because it's all one way traffic!

When you say "free movement of people" - a more fitting term would be "uncontrolled".

coastline

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Unemployment is 1.5 million lower in this recession than the last one.

Yet 5-6 million immigrants have arrived since then.

If Immigrant displaced Brits from jobs, then unemployment should be upwards of 8 million by now.

And sending home those 6 million immigrants wouldn't create a single job for British workers, as the economy would shrink and there would be fewer jobs available.

(And before anyone tries to use the straw man of economically inactive or workfare, those things existed in the last recession too just under different names. )

Heres the numbers in work since 2004...up around 1 million...today its 2.6m.
If theres nearly 6 million immigrants working in the UK then they're not showing up in the job numbers or dole numbers.

nomoreboomandbust

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Unemployment is 1.5 million lower in this recession than the last one.

Yet 5-6 million immigrants have arrived since then.

If Immigrant displaced Brits from jobs, then unemployment should be upwards of 8 million by now.

And sending home those 6 million immigrants wouldn't create a single job for British workers, as the economy would shrink and there would be fewer jobs available.

(And before anyone tries to use the straw man of economically inactive or workfare, those things existed in the last recession too just under different names. )

Now you really are taking the pi55, I haven't got all day to debunk all the crap you come up with but that is a real corker, where do you get that figure from, in the last recession (early 90's), official unemployment peaked at around 3.1 milion in jan/feb 93, this time it has probably peaked at around 2.65 million or so.

This recession feels a lot worse than that one, from the point of view that it seems a hell a lot of harder to find a new job nowadays, specially unskilled work. It doesn't take someone with an IQ of 140 to realise that the reason for that lies in the competition that comes from EU nationals (i'll use a non-xenophobic term to appease those sensitive souls in this forum)

kabayiri

Sampong wrote: »

...
The cost of dealing with all this is never included in the "reports" that Hamish keeps posting here. In fact the Government don't even know how many migrants are in Britain, so no "report" can be accurate -people like Dr Mary Beard who appeared on QT last night are completely out of touch with what is really going on - they just read paperwork generated from incorrect data.
...

That Mary Beard woman was a light weight.

She mentions a housing percentage, and then the lady in the audience points out that there are people camping out and living in her grounds! Nice one Mary, you missed that issue didn't you.

2011 Census carried a question on how many people were living in outbuildings like sheds and garages. They know it's an issue.

Speaking of Census the help materials were available in over 70 languages. Offering translation services meant purchasing provision from a company with 5,000 translators available. Neither of these things come cheap. I bet this doesn't figure in Hamish's costs either.

kabayiri

nomoreboomandbust wrote: »

Now you really are taking the pi55, I haven't got all day to debunk all the crap you come up with but that is a real corker, where do you get that figure from, in the last recession (early 90's), official unemployment peaked at around 3.1 milion in jan/feb 93, this time it has probably peaked at around 2.65 million or so.

This recession feels a lot worse than that one, from the point of view that it seems a hell a lot of harder to find a new job nowadays, specially unskilled work. It doesn't take someone with an IQ of 140 to realise that the reason for that lies in the competition that comes from EU nationals (i'll use a non-xenophobic term to appease those sensitive souls in this forum)

The public sector cushioned the job loss issue immediately after the GFC. There have been 1m+ jobs added in the state sector since the last recession. It makes any direct comparison superficial.

BertieUK

Sampong wrote: »

However all humans are responsible for their own behavior, so for the increase in Crime and Antisocial behavior, we can blame the government and the migrants.

When they are convicted for their offence it would be nice to deport them and have their passport stamped 'Undesirable' to stop them returning.


Dr Mary Beard may indeed be a very clever Historian but I felt that last night QT she certainly was living in the past with her comments.

Would it not benefit our country more to come out of the EU so that we would then be able to conduct our own affairs rather than having the EU putting all these barriers in our way, or maybe it would be better to bring about changes if we are better staying in.

Linda_D_2

I think we can all agree that mass uncontrolled immigration is a big problem for this country (well apart from the one crazy on this thread who'll selfishly support anything if he thinks it will add another fiver to the price of his house)