Flight Delay Compensation, Lufthansa Only

Gigglepig

Since te Lufthansa thread was not very active and my question was not airline specific, I thought it would be ok to post it here, if that was wrong i apologise.

I have heard about the Huzar ruling and had a look at the faqs but I just wanted to ask for feedback/suggestion as to how people would respond to the reply I got from lufthansa, in particular what questions to ask/further info I should request.

David_e

Gigglepig wrote: »

how people would respond to the reply I got from lufthansa, in particular what questions to ask/further info I should request.

I would read the Huzar ruling and challenge what Lufthansa have said using quotes from that case - or indeed from the Wallentin case.

I wouldn't waste your time asking them questions because you won't get anything from them that helps your case. They have decided to misrepresent the problem as "Extraordinary Circumsances" so your next step is send an NBA and then court.

DTDfanBoy

I would respond with an NBA asking them to pay up, or provide a valid reason why they won't be paying, it wouldn't hurt to remind them that the technical failure they indicated as causing your delay is not an extraordinary circumstance as defined by the Wallentin judgment :cool:

RMW1981

Thanks everyone for your help on this forum.

I've just submitted a claim online to Lufthansa, as they cancelled mine and my husband's flights last week, leading us to get in five hours after we planned. I used the templates and after reading the thread, am totally expecting a technical sounding excuse, but am crossing my fingers for success and am determined to pursue the claim.


Update: Lufthansa called me several times yesterday and today but I can't answer my phone at work, so then they emailed to say they will pay! The email states that they think they have a case for not paying (the cancellation was due to an exceptionally unusual technical fault), but they are willing to make a goodwill gesture and pay us the compensation.

I think it is cheaper in this instance for them to pay than to fight but I'm happy to resolve it this way. We had a very stressful journey back (had to fight to get on the next plane) and a horrible late night drive home that the original flight would have avoided. Good luck to others in the same boat.

MS_newbie_2

Hi - I submitted a flight compensation claim to Lufthansa (response below) and was told the reason for delay was due to damage sustained to the aircraft following theprevious flight operation, which is a rare occurrence and could not be foreseen so they are not liable for delays or cancellations caused by circumstancesbeyond their control.
The same aircraft did fly the next day (but we were put on a different flight at at our request as the connection time was going to be very long). Is this correct, is this not covered does anyone know? I can't see this mentioned in prev posts/rulings posted...
Many thanks!

We were sorry that your flight LH543 from Bogot! toFrankfurt on 23 December 2012 experienced a departure delay and that this had asignificant impact on the remainder of your journey. We understand howupsetting it is to have your journey disrupted in this way and offer ourapologies for any inconvenience this may have caused you.

According to our records we can see that flight LH543 wasdelayed for 21 hours and 41 minutes prior to departure due to damage sustainedto the aircraft following the previous flight operation.

Safety is Lufthansa's first priority. We thereforemaintain our aircraft regularly according to the instructions of themanufacturers. The damage which led to the delay of your flight in this case isa rare occurrence and could not be foreseen. Even with the best of intentions,unexpected problems can occur in exceptional cases and at short notice.However, you can rest assured that we are doing everything in our power toensure that such isolated incidents are kept to a minimum.

In such situations our aim is to provide our passengerswith a rebooking on the next alternative flight and to offer assistance fordelays lasting 2 hours or more. Any rebooking and offer of assistance is madesubject to availability. We can see formour records that our Lufthansa ground staff were able to rebook you onto analternative routing taking flights AV101 and IB3166 from Bogot! to LondonHeathrow via Madrid 2 days later.

Nevertheless, we certainly understand that due to thisdelay you arrived to your final destination on 26 December 2012, which as aresulted you missed the chance to enjoy Christmas day with your relatives.Please accept our sincere apologises.

However, unfortunately airlines are not liable for delaysor cancellations caused by circumstances beyond their control. Therefore, incompliance with EU Regulation 261/2004, we regret that we must respectfullydecline your request for compensation or reimbursement of additional airporttaxes. We hope for your understanding of our limitations and position in thismatter.

In addition, we are aware that when any irregularityoccurs, customer service and communication are very important. We would like toapologise for any discomfort or stress these unfortunate situation may havecaused you.

Your perspective of the handling of these situations iscompletely understandable. The service we provide during these unexpectedsituations ultimately determines how our customers feel about us and willdifferentiate Lufthansa from our competitors. Our personnel are expected to doeverything possible to hold inconvenience to a minimum and we regret the lessthan positive impression gained of our service on this occasion. Your feedbackhas been forwarded to Ground Services for internal review to ensure better servicein the future.

You can trust that your comments will be regarded veryseriously and the matter looked into to ensure any necessary improvements aremade.

Whilst we are aware that this is not the response youwere anticipating, however, we regret that we are obliged to adhere to theapplicable regulations in this matter.

Mark2spark

MS_newbie wrote: »

In such situations our aim is to provide our passengers with a rebooking on the next alternative flight...

Any rebooking and offer of assistance is made subject to availability.

Lufthansa are confirming that they have a company policy that does not comply with EU261.
Put them on notice (NBA) that their explanation is in error of the requirements by law, quote the sections from Wallentin, also from the Reg itself where it states that airlines are free to pursue action against third parties that cause damage, and maintain that your claim must be settled within 14 days or you'll be commencing court action. You might also want to include a print off of the Huzar ruling, with point 27 highlighted.
Also read Eglitis.
All in the FAQ's.

MS_newbie_2

Thanks very much for assistance.
Did as you suggested but received the below response from Lufthansa. Do you know how I can find out what damage was sustained in the previous flight to know if it was really extrodinary circumstances or not and whether I really have grounds for claim?
Thank you!

______________
Thank you for youremail dated 13 November 2013. We regret to learn of your disappointment withour response, however we appreciate this opportunity to further address yourconcerns.

As per our previous correspondence we would again like to reiterate that flightLH543 from Bogota to Frankfurt on 23 December 2012 was delayed for 21hours and 41 minutes prior to departure due to damage sustained to the aircraftfollowing the previous flight operations.

We hope for your understanding that, where flight irregularities are caused bycircumstances beyond our control, it can be difficult to predict the extent ofthe disruption. No decision to cancel a flight is ever taken lightly, butoccasionally no other option is available.

We understand that you were rebooked onto flights AV101 and 183166 from Bogotato London Heathrow via Madrid 2 days later. We certainly appreciate yourfrustration that your arrival to London Heathrow would be later than plannedand that as a result, you missed Christmas day with your family. We offer ourmost sincere apologies for this further inconvenience.

However, we appreciate your understanding that, in accordance with ourContract of Carriage, we transported you to your final destination onboardflight . Furthermore, while we certainly appreciate your dissatisfaction,however, with compliance with EU Regulation 261/2004, we regret that we mustrespectfully decline your request for compensation.

We realise that our apologies cannot erase your disappointment under thecircumstances. We ask you to view these incidents as an exception to our usualfine standards of service and regret the less than positive impression gainedboth during your journey with us and when receiving your first response fromus. It is very important to us to be able to look upon you as one of our mostvalued customers, and we hope that you will continue to fly with Lufthansa inthe future.

Whilst we are aware that this is not the response you were anticipating,however, we regret that we are obliged to adhere to the applicable regulationsin this matter.

Although we wish to be of service to you in the future, as there is no furtherinformation that we can provide, we consider this matter closed.

David_e

MS_newbie wrote: »

Do you know how I can find out what damage was sustained in the previous flight to know if it was really extrodinary circumstances or not and whether I really have grounds for claim?

I don't think you will get any more useful advice than that Mark2spark gave. If you read the FAQs, you will see that knowing what the damage was will not add a huge amount to the debate because they will continue to argue it is EC when there is a very high probablity indeed that it isn't. Of course, even if it was, they were under an obligation to mitigate the delay resulting which they probably didn't honour.

m0912329

Hello, first post here. Finding forums very helpful after long time reading, had a case if anyone can help.

My family (x3) had a flight on 11th July from London to Incheon via Munich from Lufthansa. Events that happened that day:
1. London-Munich flight got delayed due to faulty aeroplane equipment and they had to import new one from Frankfurt.
2. Lufthansa advised me to get another plane as the flight will not arrive in time to get connection flight from Munich (Munich-Incheon)
3. Instead got offered British Airways direct flight to Incheon which had no problems.

Overall, we were supposed to arrive at Incheon at 5:55 on 12th July, with alternate flights we arrived at 8:15ish.

My question is, if this counts as delayed flight (because London-Munich flight did eventually leave), then I won't be eligible for any form of compensation as it is under 3 hours delayed arrival.

However, you can also argue this incident as cancellation since if we did get on London-Munich flight, we would have missed the connection flight. In this case, cancelled but delayed flight 2-4hrs are eligible.

Any advice please? Thanks

richardw

Did you volunteer for re-routing?