Flight Delay Compensation, Lufthansa Only

Piquet

We were recently delayed for over 4 1/2 hours at Frankfurt airport because there was only one security channel (X-Ray etc) servicing several hundred passengers. The first leg of our journey was Birmingham to Frankfurt and the second was from Frankfurt to Salzburg.

The airline - Lufthansa - said the delay was not their fault and would not offer meal vouchers or allow us to use their lounges. They did book us onto a later flight.

Do we have any rights?

Caz3121

how much time was scheduled between the flights? did the Birmingham flight arrive on time? was the fast transfer lane open?

lincoln_dj

[FONT=&quot]Hi, just thought I'd share my claim experience here, let me first state what actually happened:

Flight LH2512 scheduled to leave Munich (MUC) on 28th November 2013 at 21:40 (German Time) bound for Birmingham (BHX). Actually boarded the plane and taxied for a bit before the plane stopped and returned to the terminal. The reason I got from a passenger who spoke both English and German (the stewardess was speaking in German) was that both the on-board toilets were blocked, and for health & safety reasons we could not fly without a functioning toilet.

I also found out that if we were delayed much longer we would not be allowed to land at BHX due to the airport closing at night (for noise reasons I guess). The airline then decided to put us on a flight the next day rather than land us at a different airport (Manchester for example), and we were re-scheduled onto flight LH2508 taking off at 09:10 the next morning. This resulted in a delay of 11 hours 40 minutes.
We were put up at a hotel on-site (which was actually quite nice) and fed & watered, however we were not offered any phone/email/fax communication as per with Article 9, paragraph 2 of European Union Regulation 261/2004, had not had alternative transport methods explained to us as per Article 5, paragraph 2, and did not receive written notice setting out the rules for compensation and assistance in line with Article 14, paragraph 2.
Finally, I believed that blocked toilets did not count as an "unusual circumstance" that could not have been prevented, and in fact could have been fixed within an hour - albeit with us having to land somewhere other than BHX (maybe Lufthansa didn't want to organise & pay for onward travel from a different airport)

So on to the claim procedure. I did everything via the feedback form on Lufthansa's own website which was actually quite easy and responses were also fast. It did take a while to find the relevant section on the website though, here's how to find it:
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• [FONT=&quot] Visit http://www.lufthansa.com/uk/en/Homepage and click "feedback" at the top.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot] Select category “Ground Services / Airport” then “Flight Delay / Cancelation” then “Complaint”[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot] When replying to a respose use this same form but select category “Get back on pending inquiry” and add feedback ID[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
The first message I sent was a fairly open and generic one, just saying something along the lines of "Flight LH2512 Scheduled from MUC to BHX on 28th November was cancelled, then rescheduled the next morning on flight LH2508 from MUC to BHX, resulting in a delay of 11 hours and 40 minutes. I would like to claim compensation as per European Union Regulation 261/2004."

I got a reply within 48 hours which stated: [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]We are sorry to learn that flight LH2512 from Munich to Birmingham on 28 November 2013 was cancelled. We certainly understand your frustration as we know how important it is for your journey to proceed smoothly. Please accept our sincere apologies for any inconvenience this situation may have caused.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]According to our records, flight LH2512 was cancelled as a result of an unexpected technical problem. Safety is Lufthansa’s first priority. We therefore maintain our aircraft regularly and diligently according to the instructions of the manufacturers. The defect which led to the cancellation in this case is a rare occurrence and could not have been foreseen. Even with the best of intentions, such unexpected problems can never be completely eliminated in exceptional cases. However, you can rest assured that we are doing everything in our power to make sure that these isolated incidents are kept to a minimum.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Furthermore, in the event of a flight irregularity, our main aim is to get our passengers to their final destination as quickly as possible. We are therefore pleased to learn that our staff rebooked you to flight LH2508 to Birmingham on the following day as this was the best option to bring you to your destination at that time. We trust you will appreciate that our ability to resolve these situations is subject to availability on alternative flights and that such bookings are made in good faith. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Since the cancellation of the flight was caused by unusual circumstances which could not be prevented although all feasible measures were taken, we are unfortunately unable to adhere to your request for compensation. We are conforming to the stipulations of Article 5 Paragraph 3 of European Union Regulation 261/2004. We appreciate your understanding in this matter.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]We realise that this may not be the response you were anticipating and regret that we are obliged to adhere to the applicable regulations in this matter. However, we hope you will give us the opportunity to regain your trust in our services by choosing to fly with us again in the future. We will do our utmost to make sure that your future journeys with us proceed as pleasantly as possible.

My reply was:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]With reference to your email reply dated 03/12/2013 I believe the "unusual circumstance which could not be prevented" with the plane was actually blockage of the toilets, and the crew were heard saying it would take approximately 1 hour to fix. The staff were aware of the issue before we boarded the plane. This 1 hour delay would have resulted in the plane arriving at BHX after the night-curfew. Lufthansa could have flown us, in another plane, to another airport and thus avoided any significant delay.
By deciding to cancel the flight (which was only scheduled to last 2 hours 5 minutes) and rearrange for the next day, I incurred an 11 hour and 40 minute delay - which is in contradiction to your quote "...in the event of a flight irregularity, our main aim is to get our passengers to their final destination as quickly as possible."
In reply to your argument that Lufthansa have conformed to the stipulations of Article 5 Paragraph 3 of European Union Regulation 261/2004, unless Lufthansa "can prove that the cancellation is caused by extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken", and the exact nature of the "unusual circumstance" that resulted in grounding an aircraft I will continue my pursual of compensation I believe I am entitled to under Article 5, paragraph 1c of European Union Regulation 261/2004.
I also believe Lufthansa failed to comply with Article 5, paragraph 2 of European Union Regulation 261/2004 by failing to explain to me "possible alternative transport".
I also believe Lufthansa failed to comply with Article 9, paragraph 2 of European Union Regulation 261/2004 by failing to offer "two telephone calls, telex or fax messages, or e-mails".
I also believe Lufthansa failed to comply with Article 14, paragraph 2 of European Union Regulation 261/2004 by failing to provide me with "written notice setting out the rules for compensation and assistance in line with this Regulation".[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Their second reply basically stood by their opinion that they had complied with the regulation but that in this instance they "consider it possible to exonerate ourselves from liability" but "[/FONT][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]pleased to exceptionally offer compensation in this instance[/FONT]", sounds like a cop-out to me![/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
The second reply was:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Thank you for your correspondence dated 3 December 2013. We appreciate the opportunity to address your concerns.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]We are sorry to note that our previous response did not meet with your expectations. Please be assured that this was in no way our intention to disregard your experience during this time. We can also certainly appreciate how upsetting the cancellation of the flight was for you.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]After consulting with our technical department, we have been advised that flight LH2512 from Munich to Birmingham on 28 November 2013 could not take place as planned because of the defective toilets in the aircraft. We maintain our aircrafts regularly and diligently according to the instructions of the manufacturers. However, even with the best of intentions, unexpected problems can occur in exceptional cases and at short notice. Nevertheless, rest assured that we are doing everything in our power to make sure that these isolated incidents are kept to a minimum.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Furthermore, according to our booking records, we are glad to learn that aside from providing you with the alternative flight to Birmingham on the following day as this was the best option at that time, you were also provided with hotel accommodation and meal vouchers due to the flight irregularity. We trust you will appreciate that our ability to resolve these situations is subject to availability on alternative flights and that such bookings are made in good faith. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]In this particular case we consider it possible to exonerate ourselves from liability in accordance with European Union Regulation 261/2004 but we will be pleased to exceptionally offer compensation in this instance. We will refrain from applying and providing proof of exoneration and will therefore compensate you in the amount of EUR250 equivalent to GBP208. We have made this decision based on the fact that the flight from Munich to Birmingham falls within the category of under 1500 kilometres.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]As all payments are made via bank transfer, we kindly ask you to provide us your complete bank details including bank name and address, International Bank Account Number (IBAN) and your registered postal address. As soon as we receive the information, we will issue the payment without further notice. Please allow up to 14 days for the payment to be completed to your account. Our payment indication will appear as LH22140762 – LH reimbursement. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]For prompt handling, we kindly request you to forward the requested information within 14 days, quoting reference number 22140762. We look forward to hearing from you soon and settling your claim without further delay.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] My next message was simply to say thanks and supply them with my bank information, and I was paid within 7 days if I remember rightly, certainly within 14 days anyway! :beer:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]NOTE you will need your IBAN code and Swift/BIC number (Swift and BIC are the same thing!).
Example of IBAN code : GBxxABBY12345678901234
Example of Swift/BIC: ABBYGB2xxxx (for Abbey/Santander obviously)


Hope this information is of use to someone in the future!


<edit>
Forgot to add, when we came back off the plane at MUC we were not automatically given our bags back, instead they said they would keep them and put them on the re-scheduled morning flight. Me being a fussy !!!!!! wanted my bag so I could change, clean my teeth etc. So a handful of us asked about how we can get our bags back - telling them you have medication in your bag will ensure you do get it back! The only downside was a small wait while they fished it out, also if it can't be carried on you will have to check it back in in the morning.
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Vauban

Very good, lincoln_dj: your clear grasp of the regulation and associated law made your letter (IMHO) very clear and compelling. That is basically the argument you would have used if you had had to start proceedings.

Tyzap

lincoln_dj,

Well done and thanks for taking the time to leave full 'chapter and verse' of your experience.

It's a great example and is sure to inspire others in the future.

principlecounts

Wondering if I should take this up with the CAA...mmm.

principlecounts

Now taking this up with AirHelp.

Ich_2

It's quite possible the crew was delayed as a result of the incident with the BA flight.

squelch28

hi I was delayed by 4hrs on a flight from lanzarote to Manchester on 9th June 2011. The flight was with Thomson. I have the flight number but I don't have any paperwork no booking ref or boarding passes. Can I still claim?

squelch28

sorry didn't realise i was on the wrong thread. No need to be abrupt.