Private Parking Tickets; An Alternative View

surfboy1

Pompeyboy wrote: »

This is a situation that was put in place with the advice and consent of the landowner, implemented by the leasehold management company and enforced by the users of the spaces. I cannot begin to get across to you what a problem we were having before this system was in place. I would come home from work after long shifts and find my space being used, then have to either stay awake to wait for a car owner to come back to knock on my door so that I could let them out (as I was forced to block them in in order to park) or park somewhere else if I was going out on public transport so that they could get out, or wait for someone else to remove a car that was blocking me in so that I could get out. I could go on. As someone who has lobbied my own MP about two unrelated matters I am well aware of how difficult it is to implement any change in the law in any area. There are many signs that make it very clear that this is private property and only permit holders can park there so we have no problem with implementing this system. The loss to the landlord could be the fact that some flat tenants of his did move out over problems with parking spaces that they were paying for as did other users who were renting parking spaces only.

And it wont be long untill the PPC starts issuing its invoices to the residents for "failing to display their permits" or some other breach of their terms and conditions.
Greed drives the PPC not parking controll.

Pompeyboy

surfboy1 wrote: »

And it wont be long untill the PPC starts issuing its invoices to the residents for "failing to display their permits" or some other breach of their terms and conditions.
Greed drives the PPC not parking controll.

The users of the spaces have a good rapport with the PPC because the system works for all of us. Yes, they make money but they are providing us with a service. We all know who the permit holders are so that is not a problem.

surfboy1

Pompeyboy wrote: »

The users of the spaces have a good rapport with the PPC because the system works for all of us. Yes, they make money but they are providing us with a service. We all know who the permit holders are so that is not a problem.

But the thing is , the money the PPC make, they are not legaly entitled to and that is why sites like MSE exist. To advise people of their legal rights.
That includes leasholders such as yourself .
There are too many private individuals who feel that they can fleece the public without any recourse.
You are VERY lucky if you have such a good relationship with your PPC because there are many private residents, in the same situation as you, who are not so lucky and they have been conned by the PPC.

Malovern

Most people will agree on finding a solution to ignorant people parking where they should not but using parking companies is not the solution. The fact that they are unable to form a contract with a driver as detailed in HMRC v VCS is constantly or more likely, conveniently overlooked so right there, is a problem.

Couple this with the fact that they are effectively trying to "fine" drivers for their actions is frankly disgusting. The way they do this is by appearing to be statutory bodies when they are not, sending harassing letters and generally bullying people. THESE are the reasons most people on here are hostile to them, not because "woohoo I parked in someone's space and got away with it" - you will find most people on her do not condone that action at all.

If there is to be a solution, it has to be legal, properly regulated - and I do not mean by a puppet organisation like the BPA - so that it engenders trust from both parties. In my opinion, parking tickets should be the sole domain of councils and police. If you have a problem with someone parking in you're your spaces, then you as the OWNER make a claim of reasonable pre-estimated loss against the driver of the vehicle - for example, having to park somewhere else, fuel, letters and small claims court cost. A sign to this effect that residents are actively claiming for damages would deter others but using a cowboy company is not the right solution.

Pompeyboy

surfboy1 wrote: »

But the thing is , the money the PPC make, they are not legaly entitled to and that is why sites like MSE exist. To advise people of their legal rights.
That includes leasholders such as yourself .
There are too many private individuals who feel that they can fleece the public without any recourse.
You are VERY lucky if you have such a good relationship with your PPC because there are many private residents, in the same situation as you, who are not so lucky and they have been conned by the PPC.

Well, call me naive but if I pay for a parking space in an area that is clearly labelled as private property I [rightly or wrongly] assume that I have a right to park there unimpeded. It strikes me as odd that on MSE, people are advised to make money off their spare parking space if they have one but on the other hand, you are encouraged to ignore parking charges[or invoices or whatever you wish to term them] on the same private land.

Cornucopia

Pompeyboy wrote: »

Well, call me naive but if I pay for a parking space in an area that is clearly labelled as private property I [rightly or wrongly] assume that I have a right to park there unimpeded. It strikes me as odd that on MSE, people are advised to make money off their spare parking space if they have one but on the other hand, you are encouraged to ignore parking charges[or invoices or whatever you wish to term them] on the same private land.

This isn't what is being said.

ManxRed

Pompeyboy wrote: »

Well, call me naive but if I pay for a parking space in an area that is clearly labelled as private property I [rightly or wrongly] assume that I have a right to park there unimpeded. It strikes me as odd that on MSE, people are advised to make money off their spare parking space if they have one but on the other hand, you are encouraged to ignore parking charges[or invoices or whatever you wish to term them] on the same private land.

No one is saying you don't have a right to park there unimpeded, in fact most if not all people here would agree 100%.

The problem is in how you deal with it. You are entitled to damages, but the PPC will be charging the motorist a ridiculous amount of money. Yes, they are inconsiderate for parking there and no one condones this at all, but well, there are laws relating to how much they can be pursued for, and the PPCs are happy to ignore these. We cannot condone that either.

Pompeyboy

Malovern wrote: »

Most people will agree on finding a solution to ignorant people parking where they should not but using parking companies is not the solution. The fact that they are unable to form a contract with a driver as detailed in HMRC v VCS is constantly or more likely, conveniently overlooked so right there, is a problem.
Couple this with the fact that they are effectively trying to "fine" drivers for their actions is frankly disgusting. The way they do this is by appearing to be statutory bodies when they are not, sending harassing letters and generally bullying people. THESE are the reasons most people on here are hostile to them, not because "woohoo I parked in someone's space and got away with it" - you will find most people on her do not condone that action at all.
If there is to be a solution, it has to be legal, properly regulated - and I do not mean by a puppet organisation like the BPA - so that it engenders trust from both parties. In my opinion, parking tickets should be the sole domain of councils and police. If you have a problem with someone parking in you're your spaces, then you as the OWNER make a claim of reasonable pre-estimated loss against the driver of the vehicle - for example, having to park somewhere else, fuel, letters and small claims court cost. A sign to this effect that residents are actively claiming for damages would deter others but using a cowboy company is not the right solution.

These are not isolated incidents of parking, it is a regular issue. This is not council property or a police matter. The company are not cowboys, as the majority of the people I deal with there are female, and this is the right solution for us.....because it works. And please take more care with your use of apostrophes.

Cornucopia

This is the 21st century, and I think women should have the right to be cowboys if they wish.

The issue is that whether the solution works for you or not, it is not legally robust (ie. a knowledgeable person can simply ignore it), and it encourages dishonesty and bullying on the part of the PPCs.

Whilst your PPC may be fair and honest, the fundamentals of it are that there appears to be no basis in law for a commercial company to make a living in this way.

Guys_Dad

Cornucopia wrote: »

This is the 21st century, and I think women should have the right to be cowboys if they wish.

The issue is that whether the solution works for you or not, it is not legally robust (ie. a knowledgeable person can simply ignore it), and it encourages dishonesty and bullying on the part of the PPCs.

Whilst your PPC may be fair and honest, the fundamentals of it are that there appears to be no basis in law for a commercial company to make a living in this way.

If only it were that simple.

In typical English law confusion, some judges seem to agree with you, others make up their own decisions.

A recent thread on here, for example, upheld a PPC claim in Milton Keynes, from memory. No doubt some with better memories will recall the case. But as wel all know, the law is sometimes an !!!.

On another point, I fear that with the removal of clamping there might be more court cases coming up or a change to the law. Let me explain.

There is a huge parking industry with mega companies such as NCP as well as many other smaller outfits. If they constantly fail to get their "penalty" charges paid from otherwise free car parks, they will have to cease trading. They won't go down without a fight and there are £millions at stake.

Don't see this as support for them - other than as I have outlined in this thread already. I am simply extrapolating forward and using common sense.