Flight delay and cancellation compensation, KLM/AF ONLY

lammy82

I contacted Air France about a flight which was cancelled resulting in me being transferred onto a different flight which resulted in an overall delay far in excess of 4 hours to my final destination.

Air France have replied saying the following:

The flight concerned was cancelled due to a leak of the bleed-air system. A technical issue like this, that is encountered unexpectedly, which presents itself beyond our scope of influence and is a threat to flight safety, can be regarded as an extraordinary circumstance and therefore is not one where there is an entitlement to compensation under EU regulations.

Now, I can't really argue about what the cause of the cancellation was, because I wasn't given any details at the time and didn't think to ask. But the flight was cancelled the evening before the flight was due to depart, a full 8.5 hours (at least) before the intended departure time. To me, this indicates that they made a commercial decision not to source a replacement aircraft for the flight (or attempt to repair it overnight) and to simply cancel it instead (so they could carry out the repair during the daytime, maybe). The fact that they weren't prepared to find a replacement aircraft during those 8.5 hours would indicate that the cancellation was not purely based on a technical issue.

For reference, the flight was supposed to depart at 6:30am and Air France phoned me at around 10pm the evening before to tell me that the flight was cancelled and arrange the alternative flight (which resulted in me missing almost a full day of holiday in my intended destination).

So.... does anyone think I have a valid case? Should I go back to Air France initially to give them a second chance, or go directly to the CAA?

sgr44

So I just thought that I would leave a reply to my earlier questions to say that KLM have finally settled and paid out on my claim for myself and 6 members of my family for a delayed flight to JFK in 2010!

I first contacted them in early January and got the usual responses about the Montreal Convention etc. After another 6 months of sending emails and getting the "we are still processing your claim" replies I bit the bullet and sent a NBA letter in Mid-July threatening the small claims court unless I got a satisfactory reply in 28 days.

By Mid-August I got a phonecall with an apology for the delays and to say the claim had been reassigned and then a week or so later a final call came through to say our claim was valid and whether we wanted 600EUR in cash or 800EUR in vouchers.

After asking for the cash and giving them all our bank details the money was deposited in all our accounts 3 weeks later.

So the moral of the story is, keep on at them if they try to refuse your claim the first few times!

paddcomp

Two questions, which I think I know the answer to but thought it's worth checking:-

On the 28th March 2013 we (family of 4) were booked to go MAN-ATL-MCO, the delayed flight was operated by Delta (DL65) but our booking was with KLM (KL6165). Do I still contact KLM?

When I check the arrival times for MCO our actual delay was 2:15, so less than 3 hours. We were given vouchers for food and drinks in Manchester and Delta looked after us throughout. Is there anything to claim for with it being less than 3 hours?

SCOTSMANJIM3232

Hi
wonder if anyone could give me some advice please.On 14th September i left Romania on a flight via Amsterdam to Edinburgh the flight was 2 hours late departing and then because of this did not arrive in Edinburgh until the following day. KLM did put me in a hotel for the night which was ok but didnt arrive at the hotel until 23:00 and had to be back at the airport for 06:30 following morning. The reason we were told the flight was delayed leaving Romania was that the plane had been held up by check-in issues in Paris? not sure what that had to do with it however ironically on our outbound flight which was 2 hours delayed allegedly the reason for that delay was a aircraft had to be flow in from Paris as there was a technical fault with the plane meant to be taking us. Anyhow my query is since we arrived at our final destination 11 hours after scheduled is this a good case for compensation? and also i have complained to KLM on the 15th Sept and heard nothing since. All flights were booked directly with KLM.

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

nico26

Well I have been fighting with Air France for nearly a year to get payment which was agreed. They just stopped replying to e mails. Well today I went on to the Air France on Facebook and asked when they were going to settle this. The post was pulled down but I received a reply from them and have been communicating all day and tonight it is all settled and payment getting sent to bank. Can live in hope it will go in.

welshgirl76

Hi I am new to this so hope I'm in the right place.

My AirFrance flight was delayed from Paris to Joburg and meant that I missed my connecting south African airlines flight to Maun, Botswana.
There is only one flight to maun per day with SAA from Joburg so having missed this connection I had to wait 24 hours for the next flight.
Air france put me up in a B&B over night but would not renew my ticket for the next day.
I had little option but to buy another ticket from South African Airlines and I have tried to claim the cost back from KLM/AF but they are quoting the montreal convention at me. Because its a different airline responsible for my on-going flight they cannot compensate me?
KLM say that I am only entitled to 1000 airmiles which is a goodwill gesture and that escalating my complaint will not result in a different outcome.
I am not satisfied with this because I am considerably out of pocket. 1000 air miles is hardly worth it.
They suggest I try to claim from my travel insurance.
Are they right or having me on?

Given the patronising language they use in correspondence I am loathed to drop it - which is what they request....

Thanks!

Vauban

Did you book it as two separate tickets? If so, then the airline is right - you were a no show for the second leg, and AF is not responsible. In these circumstances, your travel insurance should cover the cost.

If you booked the whole trip through AF, however, then that would be different.

welshgirl76

Thank you. Yes I did. I find these rules strange... I was a no show because I was still on the delayed AF plane when the SAA flight left Joburg. Therefore how can they not be responsible for making me miss my flight? I'll try my insurance, thanks ;-)

Vauban

It is generally regarded as a big risk to book separate flights as part of a connecting journey. Your contract with the first airline is only to get you to the first destination - they're not responsible for any of your subsequent arrangements.

If you were delayed by more than 3 hours on the Paris-Joburg route you are entitled to compensation under 261/04 anyway - regardless of whether you missed a second flight.

dundee1111

dundee1111 wrote: »

Hi guys,
I wrote an online claim to KLM on behalf of my wife and son who were delayed in Amsterdam for 24 hours on route from ABZ-AMS-BKK.Their reply is below,

Our reference: ##########
Dear Mr ####,

Thank you for your message to Customer Care dated from the 10th February 2013.
From this, we regret to learn about the delay of your flight KL 7877 from Amsterdam to Bangkok on the 23rd June 2011.
At the outset, please accept our apologies on behalf of KLM for the inconvenience you mention.
Having checked our records, we can confirm that your flight KL 877 was delayed due to technical problems with the aircraft (hydraulic).
A technical issue like this, that is encountered unexpectedly, which presents itself beyond our scope of influence and is a threat to flight safety, can be regarded as an extraordinary circumstance and therefore is not one where there is an entitlement to compensation.
I can assure you that all reasonable measures were taken in order to minimise the impact of this cancellation, including contacting passenger in advance when and where possible, providing all care and assistance due and arranging alternative flights.
As such, I am pleased to note that you were offered overnight accommodation and rebooked on the next available flight to Bangkok.
A technical issue like this, that is encountered unexpectedly, which presents itself beyond our scope of influence and is a threat to flight safety, can be regarded as an extraordinary circumstance and therefore is not one here there is an entitlement to compensation under EU regulations.
We have thoroughly reviewed your claim and have taken into account all involved details of this specific flight delay. As a result, we must respectfully decline your request for legal compensation.
In closing, it remains for me to thank you, once again, for writing and allowing me this opportunity to explain and apologise. I do hope this experience will not deter you from travelling with us again, as it would certainly be our pleasure to welcome you back on board.
Yours sincerely,

F. Abdi (Mr)
Customer Care Europe

What do you think my next plan of action should be as i am sure i should be entitled to 2 x 600 euro.
Thanks for any advise.

I have just had a successful outcome to this claim.After sending an NBA with 14 days to reply KLM did not respond.
So i started a Small Claim in my local Sherrif Court in Aberdeen.
KLM sent letter on the last possible day stating there intention to `vigorously`defend the action.
14 days before the hearing date i recieved a very lengthy 7 page defence from a firm of solicitors in Edinburgh that KLM had instructed to act on their behalf.
This defence was so full of holes that i was actually looking forward to court.
But lo and behold 2 days before court hearing i recieved another letter from them stating that although KLM vigorousy deny the claim they have decided to not contest it and would i be prepared to accept the full amount i claimed for plus court costs(no interest but this seems to be standard if it doesn`t go to court).
Needless to say i agreed and the money is now in my bank account.
I want to thank all on here who gave me the confidence to carry this through and just want to let people know they shouldn`t be scared off by Airlines or fancy firms of solicitors.