Flight delay and cancellation compensation, KLM/AF ONLY

furiber

Seems like this is the right place to post this.

If is not i appologize.

I had a flight with Air France back in 2011, it was from Heathrow via paris to Sao Paulo.

The first flight was delayed and lost the second one (from Paris), resulting in my taking another flight and being in destination over 10 hours late.

I made a claim with the airline, yet all they did back then was offering me a £75 voucher for a future purchase of a ticket it AF. Also i wasn't given anything by Air France during my wait in Paris. Also my suitcase was delayed over 4 days with my suit for the weeding i was attending.

Sounds after reading the article in MSE that i've got a solid case for the €600, however i want to know which way to proceed in my case. Should i just reach our to the airline via their web form or should i rather send them a letter using the template provided in the site?

Thanks in advance.

romanby1

furiber wrote: »

Seems like this is the right place to post this.

If is not i appologize.

I had a flight with Air France back in 2011, it was from Heathrow via paris to Sao Paulo.

The first flight was delayed and lost the second one (from Paris), resulting in my taking another flight and being in destination over 10 hours late.

I made a claim with the airline, yet all they did back then was offering me a £75 voucher for a future purchase of a ticket it AF. Also i wasn't given anything by Air France during my wait in Paris. Also my suitcase was delayed over 4 days with my suit for the weeding i was attending.

Sounds after reading the article in MSE that i've got a solid case for the €600, however i want to know which way to proceed in my case. Should i just reach our to the airline via their web form or should i rather send them a letter using the template provided in the site?

Thanks in advance.

NBA to the airline asking for the precise reason for the delay.

jacques_chirac

Vauban wrote: »

Have a look at flightstats and see if other flights were delayed that day. But to be honest, a half hour delay must have meant your connection time was needlessly tight. Not sure a judge would be sympathetic.

As long as the connection time was greater than the MCT for MSP, it should not have a bearing on the case

jacques_chirac

A new response from AF today, asking me to refer my case to the CAA?

I would ask that in this case you refer to the Civil Aviation Authority and we will be pleased to respond to them at such time as they contact us.

I responded telling them to jog on (albeit in more polite terms!) and that they would be receiving an LBA from me.

Any thoughts on why they would suggest this? I can only assume it is a delaying tactic.

furiber

romanby1 wrote: »

NBA to the airline asking for the precise reason for the delay.

Not sure what you mean by NBA...

in thei email they say the delay was due to operational issues, not sure if that helps.

blondmark

furiber wrote: »

Not sure what you mean by NBA...

Neither am I - the correct term is Letter Before Claim referenced HERE.

Notice also 1.2(1) and 6.1(1) - the requirement for the airlines to exchange sufficient information about the matter to allow the parties to understand each other's position and make informed decisions about settlement and how to proceed.

How many airlines send you their full defence before the issue of proceedings? Always ask for this in your Letter Before Claim, and always point out to the judge their failure to provide the information you needed to evaluate your claim. The judge has the power to impose financial sanctions against the airlines over their failure to provide the information you requested prior to issue.

donspecu

Hi folks,
this is what o got from AF today:
Dear Mr ...
Thank you for your letter dated 24 July 2013, regarding the flight from Aberdeen to Warsaw via Paris on 21 December 2010. At the outset, on behalf of Air France, please accept our sincere apologies for inconvenience caused to you and Mrs.
I am sorry to learn that your flight from Aberdeen to Paris
was delayed due to technical problems with the aircraft. Unfortunately you and Mrs missed the onward connection to Warsaw and were rebooked for the next day flight. Since technical issue is an extraordinary circumstance and as such there is no entitlement for compensation under EU regulations for these occurrences, therefore we respectfully decline your request for EU compensation.

However, as a gesture of goodwill, we are pleased to offer you and Mrs a non-refundable travel voucher of EUR 200.00 each. This can be used for your future travel and valid for one year on AF/KL/DL from the date of issue. Please find the details of the voucher as mentioned below:
Beneficiary:
EMD Voucher Number:
Amount: EUR 200.00 (equivalent to GBP 175.00)
Date of issue:

Beneficiary:
EMD Voucher Number:
Amount: EUR 200.00 (equivalent to GBP 175.00)
Date of issue:

This electronic voucher is valid for 12 months from the date of issue mentioned above and can be used towards the purchase of a ticket for travel on Air France, KLM and/or Delta Air Lines marketed flights.

You can purchase your ticket on-line at when you pay in the same currency as the voucher and purchase a ticket for a higher amount than the value of the voucher, e.g. for vouchers issued in British Pounds (GBP), please book on the UK website of Air France. Likewise, for vouchers issued in EUR, please book on the Air France website of a Eurozone country. Any balance can then be paid using a credit card.

You can also purchase your ticket through our telephone sales centres or airport/city ticket offices. There you can also purchase other optional products and services where offered on Air France or KLM operated and marketed flights, e.g. upgrades, Economy Comfort seats, Economy Class seats with extra legroom, additional baggage allowance and a la carte meals, etc.

When you use your electronic voucher through our telephone sales centres to make a purchase for a lesser amount than the value of the voucher, we will issue you with a new voucher for the residual amount. This new electronic voucher will maintain the same expiry date as the original voucher.
Contact details for our telephone sales centres can be found on our websites at
In all cases, the electronic voucher must be redeemed within the validity period and cannot be extended. A maximum of two electronic vouchers can be redeemed per ticket or service purchased.

We look forward to welcoming you on board our services, or those of our partners, in the very near future.

What to do next?
Should I send them LBA or NBA and wait for their reponse?
or maybe anything else? any help appreciated.
thanks
Pete

romanby1

donspecu wrote: »

Hi folks,
this is what o got from AF today:
Dear Mr ...
Thank you for your letter dated 24 July 2013, regarding the flight from Aberdeen to Warsaw via Paris on 21 December 2010. At the outset, on behalf of Air France, please accept our sincere apologies for inconvenience caused to you and Mrs.
I am sorry to learn that your flight from Aberdeen to Paris
was delayed due to technical problems with the aircraft. Unfortunately you and Mrs missed the onward connection to Warsaw and were rebooked for the next day flight. Since technical issue is an extraordinary circumstance and as such there is no entitlement for compensation under EU regulations for these occurrences, therefore we respectfully decline your request for EU compensation.

However, as a gesture of goodwill, we are pleased to offer you and Mrs a non-refundable travel voucher of EUR 200.00 each. This can be used for your future travel and valid for one year on AF/KL/DL from the date of issue. Please find the details of the voucher as mentioned below:
Beneficiary:
EMD Voucher Number:
Amount: EUR 200.00 (equivalent to GBP 175.00)
Date of issue:

Beneficiary:
EMD Voucher Number:
Amount: EUR 200.00 (equivalent to GBP 175.00)
Date of issue:

This electronic voucher is valid for 12 months from the date of issue mentioned above and can be used towards the purchase of a ticket for travel on Air France, KLM and/or Delta Air Lines marketed flights.

You can purchase your ticket on-line at when you pay in the same currency as the voucher and purchase a ticket for a higher amount than the value of the voucher, e.g. for vouchers issued in British Pounds (GBP), please book on the UK website of Air France. Likewise, for vouchers issued in EUR, please book on the Air France website of a Eurozone country. Any balance can then be paid using a credit card.

You can also purchase your ticket through our telephone sales centres or airport/city ticket offices. There you can also purchase other optional products and services where offered on Air France or KLM operated and marketed flights, e.g. upgrades, Economy Comfort seats, Economy Class seats with extra legroom, additional baggage allowance and a la carte meals, etc.

When you use your electronic voucher through our telephone sales centres to make a purchase for a lesser amount than the value of the voucher, we will issue you with a new voucher for the residual amount. This new electronic voucher will maintain the same expiry date as the original voucher.
Contact details for our telephone sales centres can be found on our websites at
In all cases, the electronic voucher must be redeemed within the validity period and cannot be extended. A maximum of two electronic vouchers can be redeemed per ticket or service purchased.

We look forward to welcoming you on board our services, or those of our partners, in the very near future.

What to do next?
Should I send them LBA or NBA and wait for their reponse?
or maybe anything else? any help appreciated.
thanks
Pete

Hang on to the voucher, to some extent they have admitted liability.
Send NBA rejecting the voucher with a 14 or 21 day satisfactory response time pointing out "Technical Difficulties" are NOT an EC under the Regulation other wise you will issue proceedings. Pointing out they did not make every effort to get you to your destination at the earliest possible time.

donspecu

romanby1 wrote: »

Hang on to the voucher, to some extent they have admitted liability.
Send NBA rejecting the voucher with a 14 or 21 day satisfactory response time pointing out "Technical Difficulties" are NOT an EC under the Regulation other wise you will issue proceedings. Pointing out they did not make every effort to get you to your destination at the earliest possible time.

Thanks,
I have send a NBA letter this morning and awating a response,
Will let you know with the outcome,
hopin to get 400euro each

pichon

My husband and I were flying from Asia via Paris to London Heathrow in April this year. The first leg departed two hours late, which resulted in our missing the connecting flight in Paris.

The delay happened after everyone was on board, so all the passengers had to wait in the aircraft for two hours until the departure. They kept saying in the announcement that there were some technical issues.

The first leg arrived 15 minutes after our originally booked connecting flight left (16:00). Then we were put on a flight to London at 20:15. We were given a meal voucher at the airport.

There were two other flights between Paris and LHR that AF operated between 4 p.m. and 8:15 p.m., but yet most (if not all) of us in the delayed flight were put on the last flight of the day, having to wait for nearly four hours in the airport. I do not know whether the other two flights were full, but certainly the 8:15 p.m. flight was empty. Yet, all of the people who were on the delayed flight were cramped into the back section of the aircraft. Funnily enough, the first half section of the plane was completely empty. Some very annoyed gentleman complained to the flight attendant, how come they shove all the tired people from a delayed long-haul flight to the back without any empty seats among them and added, "This is madness!." The flight attendant man refuted, "Zis iz not madness, it's business!!!"

This resulted in us arriving in London four and a half hours late than the original schedule. This was a long haul flight of over 5000 miles, and therefore we believe we are entitled to EUR600 compensation per person.

So I wrote to Air France, and received a reply very soon which follows as below.

"The flight concerned was delayed due to a technical that is encountered unexpectedly, which presents itself beyond our scope of influence and is a threat to flight safety. It can be regarded as an extraordinary circumstance and therefore is not one here there is an entitlement to compensation under EU regulations.

I recognise and sincerely regret the inconvenience that this must have caused you and offer my sincere apologies on behalf of our Company.

As we aim for an on-time departure of our flights, this requires that all passengers must present themselves at the departure gate by the stipulated time.

Airports publish official minimum transfer times for passengers making flight connections. This affords the time necessary for baggage transfer and for passengers to pass through security, board the aircraft and still allow the crew to carry out final checks and to meet their scheduled departure time.

In cases where an inbound arrival causes a passenger to miss the minimum connection time our staff will provide assistance. Hence, you have been rebooked on alternative flight AFxxxx to reach your final destination as soon as possible.

Clearly, we would not wish this situation to be your lasting impression of our company and therefore I am pleased to offer you and XXXX (my husband) a bonus of miles. Your Flying Blue accounts will be credited shortly.

In closing, we look forward to welcoming you on-board another of our flights in the very near future."


I don't know what to make of this reply from AF.
Do I have chance in taking this further? I don't know what technical issues caused the delay and whether this is a result of a poor maintenance. Has anyone received similar offer of unspecified amount of "bonus miles"? I read through the entire AF/KLM thread, but I don't think I came across a story of a similar offer.

I would appreciate your knowledgeable advice.
Thank you very much.