Flight delay and cancellation compensation, Easyjet ONLY

eskbanker

launrw said:

Two points: 

- in their evidence, my flight didn't have any CTOTs being applied, and conveniently they didn't show any Target Take-Off Time for this particular day (I was given TTOT for the ones before and after)

Not sure what significance you're seeing here in the absence of those times, and what mileage there is in pursuing that?

launrw said:

- the cancellation was because they couldn't take the plane and crew back from Berlin before the Berlin airport's curfew (9.29pm curfew for departures)

Yes, but that's the effect rather than the cause, i.e. it's because of earlier ATC restrictions that it wasn't possible to beat the curfew, assuming that 21:30 signifies UTC rather than local time (the timetabled arrival of the Luton flight was already after 21:30 local).

If the Berlin legs are so susceptible to the curfew that an hour's delay precludes their operation then have they explained why a spare aircraft wasn't used, given that it's their primary operating base?  Presumably they'll have explained why they wouldn't just fly to Berlin and return the next day?

launrw

eskbanker said:

Not sure what significance you're seeing here in the absence of those times, and what mileage there is in pursuing that?

Thanks for replying!
Just an observation. For example, looking at the rotation, the aircraft was scheduled on 6 flights and the turnaround between each was ~ 30 mins, which didn't really leave much room for delays.
Also, for example, the first flight affected by the ATC (3rd in the rotation) had a CTOT of 12:07 since 9:30am which is 40 mins later than scheduled (STD 11:25)

Yes, but that's the effect rather than the cause, i.e. it's because of earlier ATC restrictions that it wasn't possible to beat the curfew, assuming that 21:30 signifies UTC rather than local time (the timetabled arrival of the Luton flight was already after 21:30 local).

If the Berlin legs are so susceptible to the curfew that an hour's delay precludes their operation then have they explained why a spare aircraft wasn't used, given that it's their primary operating base?  Presumably they'll have explained why they wouldn't just fly to Berlin and return the next day?

Not sure I was clear on this. My flight could have landed in Berlin before the airport curfew, which is 21:29 local time. The cancellation was because at that point the BER- LUT flight was not going to make it back to Luton and they didn't want the aircraft and crew in the 'wrong' place 

Spare aircraft was not available based on the document provided (with screenshot)

launrw

Apologies, made a bit of a mess trying to quote-replying

This was my answer to the first bit

Thanks for replying!
Just an observation. For example, looking at the rotation, the aircraft was scheduled on 6 flights and the turnaround between each was ~ 30 mins, which didn't really leave much room for delays.
Also, for example, the first flight affected by the ATC (3rd in the rotation) had a CTOT of 12:07 since 9:30am which is 40 mins later than scheduled (STD 11:25)

eskbanker

launrw said:

Apologies, made a bit of a mess trying to quote-replying

This was my answer to the first bit

Thanks for replying!
Just an observation. For example, looking at the rotation, the aircraft was scheduled on 6 flights and the turnaround between each was ~ 30 mins, which didn't really leave much room for delays.
Also, for example, the first flight affected by the ATC (3rd in the rotation) had a CTOT of 12:07 since 9:30am which is 40 mins later than scheduled (STD 11:25)

Yes, like many other airlines, EasyJet operates with short turnaround times, which does inevitably lead to delays snowballing, especially for flights later in the day such as yours but the fact that the aircraft was delayed by earlier ATC restrictions is presumably not in dispute?

launrw said:

eskbanker said:

Yes, but that's the effect rather than the cause, i.e. it's because of earlier ATC restrictions that it wasn't possible to beat the curfew, assuming that 21:30 signifies UTC rather than local time (the timetabled arrival of the Luton flight was already after 21:30 local).

If the Berlin legs are so susceptible to the curfew that an hour's delay precludes their operation then have they explained why a spare aircraft wasn't used, given that it's their primary operating base?  Presumably they'll have explained why they wouldn't just fly to Berlin and return the next day?

Not sure I was clear on this. My flight could have landed in Berlin before the airport curfew, which is 21:29 local time. The cancellation was because at that point the BER- LUT flight was not going to make it back to Luton and they didn't want the aircraft and crew in the 'wrong' place 

Spare aircraft was not available based on the document provided (with screenshot)

Likewise I don't think you got my point on the curfew, which was that if the curfew was 21:30 local time then your flight schedule would never work, because even if it operated on time, it would arrive after the curfew had started!  However, I remain convinced that the curfew is actually 21:30 UTC, i.e. 23:30 local, as a number of flights departed after 23:00 local.  Anyway, that's all largely academic....

I could be wrong but suspect that AviationADR will accept EasyJet's argument that ATC restrictions left them unable to fly to Berlin and back before the curfew kicked in and that it's reasonable not to simply operate the outbound leg in such circumstances, given the knock-on effects to the next day's schedule, which EasyJet will no doubt have outlined.

However, what has been your line of argument against that thus far?

launrw

Thanks, much appreciated the input!

I can see what you are saying on the times, the document doesn't make it easy to interpret, and they wrote 21:29 without a timezone reference.

I've only submitted the basics documents for the ArbitrationADR with a brief note on the knock-on effect, as I thought (before reading further, but after submission) it wouldn't be a valid reason - I had found one example but ATC-weather related.

Have been looking for a different angle since easyJet returned their defence, as it's not really something I do often

One thing that annoys me is that we were made to go through boarding and were standing outside the plane. It's only at that point that it got cancelled.