Flight delay and cancellation compensation, Jet2.com ONLY

NoviceAngel

stevemej wrote: »

Has anybody come up against Jet2 using:

"18. Hidden Manufacturing Defect
Discovery of a hidden manufacturing defect by the air
carrier (this is often noted by unusual failure of the
same aircraft part)"

This is the only remaining teh issue on the caa's list of get-outs.

Surely it's like your granny dying - You can only use the excuse a couple of times!

Hi,

Yes it's come up loads of times.

1) The NEB Wishlist is exactly that it's a Wishlist and is not underpinned in law, it's a suggested list of EC's if you read my post in the Allen thread results, you will note Mr Charles Bear QC quoted the Wishlist in Court, Judge Jenkinson appears to have completely ignored it in his Judgement. The defence tore this wishlist apart. again its in my previous post.

2) The airline would have to prove that the airline manufacturer has admitted that there indeed is a hidden manufacturing defect.

3) If the airline manufacturer did admit should a defect, then it means your still have a third party claim, in other words the airline would then claim from the airline manufacturer. IMHO

4) I'm late for work got to go.........

Cheers,

NoviceAngel

NoviceAngel

howticklediam wrote: »

Thanks guys. It does seem a bit ridiculous, one of the OFT guidance docs on fair terms is over 80 pages.

One other thing, does any one know a good strategy for making sure the other side submit their papers on time? I think maybe a phone call on the last postage date to ask if they have their's ready for posting before I post mine. I wonder if it's worth it and if will make any difference. I suppose all defence solicitors are different, some will try it on while others will play by the book.

It's best if they're late, wouldn't look good for them.

TBH, Two Birds are generally very good and courteous, they will generally agree email service if you ask them nicely.

Cheers,

NoviceAngel

howticklediam

NoviceAngel wrote: »

It's best if they're late, wouldn't look good for them.

TBH, Two Birds are generally very good and courteous, they will generally agree email service if you ask them nicely.

Cheers,

NoviceAngel

Thanks, I might try that.

Tyzap

stevemej wrote: »

Has anybody come up against Jet2 using:

"18. Hidden Manufacturing Defect
Discovery of a hidden manufacturing defect by the air
carrier (this is often noted by unusual failure of the
same aircraft part)"

This is the only remaining teh issue on the caa's list of get-outs.

Surely it's like your granny dying - You can only use the excuse a couple of times!

Hi,

A hidden Manufacturing Defect refers to a common fault that affect all, or a batch, of parts that have been fitted to a number of aircraft across different airlines.

When this part is found to be faulty, usually by the manufacturer, all airlines using that part will be informed as a matter of urgency. They will have to follow the manufacturers recommended fix within a strict permitted time span.

Famously, or perhaps I should say, infamously, an example of this was the batteries on the Boeing Dreamliners. When these stared to burst into flames all Dreamliners were grounded whilst a fix was found. This affected all users of the Dreamliner.

Another less urgent example was the wing spars on the Airbus A380. A batch were found to have small cracks and required extra monitoring until they were replaced.

Manufacturing faults/defects come under a mandatory reporting scheme so any failure to comply will see Jet2 in very deep water as this could potentially effect the safety of other aircraft with the same faulty part fitted.

What Jet2 are saying is utter rubbish, if you have the time you should report them to the CAA who are responsible for monitoring them. The CAA take safety issues very seriously and this is an abuse of a very serious issue.

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP382.PDF

Good luck.

howticklediam

Tyzap wrote: »

Hi,

A hidden Manufacturing Defect refers to a common fault that affect all, or a batch, of parts that have been fitted to a number of aircraft across different airlines.

When this part is found to be faulty, usually by the manufacturer, all airlines using that part will be informed as a matter of urgency. They will have to follow the manufacturers recommended fix within a strict permitted time span.

Famously, or perhaps I should say, infamously, an example of this was the batteries on the Boeing Dreamliners. When these stared to burst into flames all Dreamliners were grounded whilst a fix was found. This affected all users of the Dreamliner.

Another less urgent example was the wing spars on the Airbus A380. A batch were found to have small cracks and required extra monitoring until they were replaced.

Manufacturing faults/defects come under a mandatory reporting scheme so any failure to comply will see Jet2 in very deep water as this could potentially effect the safety of other aircraft with the same faulty part fitted.

What Jet2 are saying is utter rubbish, if you have the time you should report them to the CAA who are responsible for monitoring them. The CAA take safety issues very seriously and this is an abuse of a very serious issue.

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP382.PDF

Good luck.

Tyzap - That's a great document, thanks, I didn't know there was a mandatory reporting scheme by the manufacturer. I though it all came via EASA Safety Information Bulletins and Airworthiness Directives.

Stevemej - You can also go to http://ad.easa.europa.eu/ and do a keyword search in MCAI (mandatory) and non-MCAI for any safety directives issued against that equipment. You can filter by plane type, j2 are usually Boeing 737, to narrow it down a little.

glentoran99

23. Despite the above, and despite the fact
that Jet2.com do consider such an option on each occasion where there is a
probable delay to a flight, even if such an option is logistically possible I am
told by members of the Charter Sales Department that to charter another aircraft
on such short notice to perform the Claimant's Flight on that day would cost in
the region of £60,000.00. However, this figure would also depend on variable
factors such as the level of de-positioning / re-positioning required and so
could exceed this amount. Accordingly, to charter a replacement aircraft would
have been an unreasonable measure to take in the circumstances.

doesnt the regulation state they should do this? cant remember the exact wording off hand

NoviceAngel

fight2survive2013 wrote: »

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23. Despite the above, and despite the fact that Jet2.com do consider such an option on each occasion where there is a probable delay to a flight, even if such an option is logistically possible I am told by members of the Charter Sales Department that to charter another aircraft on such short notice to perform the Claimant's Flight on that day would cost in the region of £60,000.00. However, this figure would also depend on variable factors such as the level of de-positioning / re-positioning required and so could exceed this amount. Accordingly, to charter a replacement aircraft would have been an unreasonable measure to take in the circumstances.
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Georgia,Georgia]
[/FONT]

Why in the region of £60,000.00 where are the quotes? If they had enquired AT THE TIME they would have all the info, very poor and woolly

A couple of threads/posts for you to look through:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5189345

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=59429463&postcount=580

Cheers,

NoviceAngel

PS and don't let them get away with quoting the NEB Wishlist, have a read of my posts in the Allen thread.....

DrA_Harrogate

Good evening, or indeed morning, fellow sufferers


I have tonight (Saturday, they work these lawyers hard don't they?) received a copy of Jet2's 'reasons' for my Court to find in their favour.


Basically, they assert that the funderwoggler was not a 'wear and tear' item but quite surprisingly failed. They say this might be a manufacturing defect. Ha! I have about 6 days to have my say.


So, things I know already and will say:


1. If it was a manufacturing defect and occurred anywhere else then the manufacturers would have been bound to contact users.


2. It was a 'knock on' from more than 24 hours previously and case law (I have it somewhere) says you cannot usually knock these on - it was up to Jet2 either to fix it, or arrange another aircraft, for which they had plenty of time.


3. The 'average' time to failure is irrelevant without distributional statistics such as the variance.


Much of this was aired in the hearing ages ago.


So if I have missed anything vital feel free to mention it swiftly!


AS

NoviceAngel

DrA_Harrogate wrote: »

Good evening, or indeed morning, fellow sufferers


I have tonight (Saturday, they work these lawyers hard don't they?) received a copy of Jet2's 'reasons' for my Court to find in their favour.


Basically, they assert that the funderwoggler was not a 'wear and tear' item but quite surprisingly failed. They say this might be a manufacturing defect. Ha! I have about 6 days to have my say.


So, things I know already and will say:


1. If it was a manufacturing defect and occurred anywhere else then the manufacturers would have been bound to contact users.


2. It was a 'knock on' from more than 24 hours previously and case law (I have it somewhere) says you cannot usually knock these on - it was up to Jet2 either to fix it, or arrange another aircraft, for which they had plenty of time.


3. The 'average' time to failure is irrelevant without distributional statistics such as the variance.


Much of this was aired in the hearing ages ago.


So if I have missed anything vital feel free to mention it swiftly!


AS

Just heading on up to bed, but

1) yes, there's been plenty on this last few pages of this thread, I recall a post from Tyzap, with some very interesting comments .....


2) follow the link I have gave recently knock on weather from Mark2spark.... However, be careful there is no case law on this and it could go either way .......


3) it's a 'tech' end of quote Huzar and 'Allen'


Jet2 are foolish beyond belief

Can I go to bed now..........?

Hope I have helped

Cheers,

NoviceAngel

PS The link to Mark2sparks post is directly above yours......

111KAB

As one of the first to court claim on a 261 delay when I submitted my bundle there was very little information on the net and indeed this MSE thread did not exist. So I gathered every bit of info I could and stuck it in the bundle including press articles - I knew these were not evidence but they actually proved useful as I know my judge read them prior to my hearing ......


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/10320318/Air-passenger-compensated-for-weather-delay.html