Flight delay and cancellation compensation, Ryanair ONLY

CKhalvashi

housebuyer7 said:

CKhalvashi said:

You should have contacted the live chat team at the airport but that you didn't isn't necessarily a problem.

I would.also advise forwarding to the ADR if you have heard nothing back, as hopefully this will resolve in the meantime.

I did try to use live chat but couldn’t get it to connect to an actual operator. I was in a state of panic at the time though. I don’t have any screenshots of this though. I have forwarded everything to the ADR and await to hear.

That's fine, it's recommended but not necessarily a problem in itself and shouldn't influence the case in any way, it would have likely made your life easier at that time, however.

Please don't worry, the ADR is impartial and will deal with this on the basis of fairness for you.

chattyuk

Hi All,

After a bit of advice regarding my delayed flight. In summary flight was supposed to take off at 9pm but didn't take off until 3pm the next day. Compensation has been paid out for the hotel stay/expenses.

We got on the plane around 11pm and were originally told they were delayed due to atc strikes in Spain delaying the aircraft earlier in the day (for info my flight was going from France - UK). We were all set to go but the pilot announced the aircraft refueller had went home for the night but he'd been called back... eventually we were fuelled up, safety briefing done and the captain then announced the crew were over their hours and the plane couldn't depart that night.

Ryanair are stating they won't pay out the compensation as the delay "was due to air traffic control restrictions, outside of our control."

Questions I have:

• The atc strikes were known about in advance, could Ryanair have planned for this?
• My flight wasn't delayed due to strikes in France/UK, it affected flights in a different country. Again should Ryanair have planned for this with aircraft positioning etc? Is this even relevant?
• We could have taken off within the flight crew hours if the aircraft was refuelled on time (I presume), again does this come into account?

Thanks in advance!

eskbanker

chattyuk said:

Questions I have:

• The atc strikes were known about in advance, could Ryanair have planned for this?
• My flight wasn't delayed due to strikes in France/UK, it affected flights in a different country. Again should Ryanair have planned for this with aircraft positioning etc? Is this even relevant?
• We could have taken off within the flight crew hours if the aircraft was refuelled on time (I presume), again does this come into account?

It's difficult to be definitive about the validity of knock-on delays, even if they were all caused by the ATC strike - were you able to establish the aircraft's movements earlier in the day?

Unavailability of refuelling personnel at a (presumably small) French airport could be a legitimate reason for Ryanair to assert that this is outside their control and that it caused enough delay to send the crew out of hours - the fact that they're blaming ATC doesn't necessarily mean that they won't fall back on a secondary argument if necessary!

CKhalvashi

eskbanker said:

chattyuk said:

Questions I have:

• The atc strikes were known about in advance, could Ryanair have planned for this?
• My flight wasn't delayed due to strikes in France/UK, it affected flights in a different country. Again should Ryanair have planned for this with aircraft positioning etc? Is this even relevant?
• We could have taken off within the flight crew hours if the aircraft was refuelled on time (I presume), again does this come into account?

It's difficult to be definitive about the validity of knock-on delays, even if they were all caused by the ATC strike - were you able to establish the aircraft's movements earlier in the day?

Unavailability of refuelling personnel at a (presumably small) French airport could be a legitimate reason for Ryanair to assert that this is outside their control and that it caused enough delay to send the crew out of hours - the fact that they're blaming ATC doesn't necessarily mean that they won't fall back on a secondary argument if necessary!

ATC strikes are not within the airline's control.

If the crew had operated to Spain and back before your flight then that will likely be outside the control of the airline. Crewing is generally the airline responsibility, but airlines can only be expected to have certain amounts of reserve crews and aircraft available and in the case of widespread disruption these can be quickly exhausted. OH (who doesn't work for Ryanair) receives a roster around the 17th for the next month and strikes generally aren't announced more than a few weeks in advance. Flying aircraft around empty generally won't be considered reasonable in the case of EU legislation.

Fuel in the case of a small airport may only have a single supplier (normally being the airport) in line with EU legislation, so this may be far outside Ryanair's control. If the refueller has gone home and the plane is running at minimum fuel there isn't a lot that can be done. In addition crew must be rested (meaning 12 hours of uninterrupted rest) in line with CAA/EASA FTLs in most circumstances, split duties can be implemented but generally not on a 4 sector day. A 3pm departure would suggest the crew gave up around 1am.

On a late flight, it's very possible the airline doesn't have a spare night landing slot and one can't be given by the airport due to limits on these.

I would suggest that Ryanair will likely have several fallbacks here.

Jackl31

Hi all,

Myself and 3 others (living in UK) were due to travel from Mykonos to Budapest on FR1911 with Ryanair on 17/09/2022

The flight ended up becoming an overnight delay with no official reason provided. During the day, they tried to board us twice. The first time it seemed like there was no plane and the second time there was a plane, however ground staff couldn't seem to secure a route (there were rumours that they were going to take us to Athens instead).

I have since submitted compensation claims and after months of chasing, Ryanair recently informed me that they would not be paying out compensation as the delay was due to 'adverse weather conditions'. There were no signs of adverse weather on the day and other flights were leaving without an issue. Also, airport staff were telling us we could claim compensation i.e. didn't suggest we would have issues claiming.

I am now wondering, should I follow the suggested process to take Ryanair to the European small claims court? Or is there a NWNF firm that you recommend I use?

Any thoughts appreciated as I'm not quite sure what to do next

Thanks

Jack

CKhalvashi

Jackl31 said:

Hi all,

Myself and 3 others (living in UK) were due to travel from Mykonos to Budapest on FR1911 with Ryanair on 17/09/2022

The flight ended up becoming an overnight delay with no official reason provided. During the day, they tried to board us twice. The first time it seemed like there was no plane and the second time there was a plane, however ground staff couldn't seem to secure a route (there were rumours that they were going to take us to Athens instead).

I have since submitted compensation claims and after months of chasing, Ryanair recently informed me that they would not be paying out compensation as the delay was due to 'adverse weather conditions'. There were no signs of adverse weather on the day and other flights were leaving without an issue. Also, airport staff were telling us we could claim compensation i.e. didn't suggest we would have issues claiming.

I am now wondering, should I follow the suggested process to take Ryanair to the European small claims court? Or is there a NWNF firm that you recommend I use?

Any thoughts appreciated as I'm not quite sure what to do next

Thanks

Jack

Hello!

Do you happen to know what the weather was doing in Budapest and wherever the plane came from (if not Budapest)
If not, do you have a time and date of expected departure on the 17th?

Mykonos (like many Greek airports) has a quite short runway that also is quite narrow so there is a good chance that even wind you may consider as quite mild may push a 737 outside of limits.

bagand96

CKhalvashi said:

Jackl31 said:

Hi all,

Myself and 3 others (living in UK) were due to travel from Mykonos to Budapest on FR1911 with Ryanair on 17/09/2022

The flight ended up becoming an overnight delay with no official reason provided. During the day, they tried to board us twice. The first time it seemed like there was no plane and the second time there was a plane, however ground staff couldn't seem to secure a route (there were rumours that they were going to take us to Athens instead).

I have since submitted compensation claims and after months of chasing, Ryanair recently informed me that they would not be paying out compensation as the delay was due to 'adverse weather conditions'. There were no signs of adverse weather on the day and other flights were leaving without an issue. Also, airport staff were telling us we could claim compensation i.e. didn't suggest we would have issues claiming.

I am now wondering, should I follow the suggested process to take Ryanair to the European small claims court? Or is there a NWNF firm that you recommend I use?

Any thoughts appreciated as I'm not quite sure what to do next

Thanks

Jack

Hello!

Do you happen to know what the weather was doing in Budapest and wherever the plane came from (if not Budapest)
If not, do you have a time and date of expected departure on the 17th?

Mykonos (like many Greek airports) has a quite short runway that also is quite narrow so there is a good chance that even wind you may consider as quite mild may push a 737 outside of limits.

The OP has also started their own thread here Should I take Ryanair to small claims court? — MoneySavingExpert Forum

Aircraft looks to have made an approach to Mykonos but then diverted to Athens.  The flight then operated the next day on the same aircraft.  

housebuyer7

Hello

I had a flight booked with Ryanair and this was cancelled 45min before take off while we were at the gates. I am trying to get reimbursed for my expenses of getting back to the UK after this and have a claim with Aviation ADR. Ryanair have now submitted a defence from solicitors with lots of jargon and I feel overwhelmed reading it all. I now have seven days to respond and wondered if I can get any help formulating a response? 

The defence seems to focus on me not responding to their email which said my flight was cancelled. However when I received this I tried to book an alternative flight via their link in the email but as it was cancelled so close to take off that option was greyed out to me. I unfortunately don’t have a screenshot of this though!!

My initial claimant letter to the aviation ADR was:

Our flight (flight number XXX) was due to depart XXX Airport to XXX on Saturday XXX at 19:40. It was cancelled approximately 45 minutes prior to departure time. Myself and my husband along with the rest of the passengers were left abandoned and stranded by Ryanair at night in rural France at a small regional airport. We were provided with no information of where to go or what to do. Adding to the chaos was a British Airways flight to Southampton had also been cancelled, the only other flight departing from XXX that late afternoon/evening. The customer services at the airport advised they had to help the British Airways customers who had been cancelled first and were being rerouted to XXX. They would therefore not deal with us. This meant a queue of 500 people at 19:00 at night. In addition, the customer services at the airport informed us that there was no accommodation available within a 2-hour radius due to a sporting event, Championnats de France 2022. As we did not want to sleep on the floor of the airport, we gratefully accepted accommodation from strangers, resulting in us not claiming expenses for accommodation or food due to their hospitality. We first attempted to rebook our flight via the Ryanair app, but this option wasn’t available to us and had been greyed out as you had cancelled our flight 45 minutes before take-off. Next, we attempted to use the Ryanair website live chat (at approximately 19:00 CEST), which we could not get to connect with a customer services operator. Finally, we attempted to contact Ryanair via telephone call but despite calling the UK number we found (+44 1279358395 - time stamped in my phone records at 19:04:52 CEST), the operator messages were recorded in French, so we were unable to proceed. At no point did we receive any communication from Ryanair, other than to be informed our flight was cancelled. We were not offered any assistance. We attempted to book two alternative flights using Ryanair, first from XXX to Stansted on Sunday 28th August (flight number XXX) and second from XXX to East Midlands on Sunday 28th August (flight number XXX). However, both these flights sold out within minutes, and we were too late. The only flight we could find was EasyJet departing from XXX to London Gatwick on Sunday 28th August (flight number XXX), which was certainly not convenient. However, we urgently needed to get home due to work commitments as my husband, and joint claimant is a social worker and therefore a keyworker for the local government.

eskbanker

Sounds to me like paragraphs 7 to 13 are trying to make the case that you didn't contact Ryanair and therefore they're not obliged to pay for rerouting, which is nonsense, and also untrue, in that you have what sounds like a clear audit trail of attempts to contact them and also details of the unavailability of various other rerouting options, so your evidence should counter theirs convincingly on that point.

There seems to be a discrepancy on the email timing, in that they say it was sent at 17:52 but you say it was 18:55 (45 minutes before scheduled 19:40 departure) - given you were in France, was this a time zone issue perhaps?

The later paragraphs appear to be implying that there's some sort of invalid claim for consequential costs being made - how exactly is the £832.58 broken down?

housebuyer7

Thank you for your help! I think that may be a time difference thing seeing as we were at the gate when this happened waiting. The costs are broken down as:
- Train to new departure airport in France
- New flight
- Train from Gatwick to Bournemouth
- Taxi from Bournemouth train station to the airport to collect our car

I have evidence that I attempted to call them but I do not have evidence of trying to use the app to rebook a flight that it was greyed out as it was too close to the departure time so basically I think the window had passed to be rerouted (maybe you have to change your flight at least 2 hours before you depart or something and I was told too late - need to try and find evidence of that).