Flight delay and cancellation compensation, BA ONLY

symphony63

Dazbang wrote: »

Hi all,

I've been reading through this forum for a little while but haven't found a clear-cut answer to an issue we had, so was wondering if someone could help with regard to whether or not we may be entitled to compensation (apologies in advance if I go on a bit but I just wanted to get things clear in my head too!)

On Tuesday 12th December my girlfriend and I were due to catch the 15.35 Comair flight from Port Elizabeth (PLZ) to Johannesburg (JNB) (BA 6240) where we would connect to the 20.15 flight to London Heathrow (BA 56), however due to delayed arrival at Port Elizabeth our flight left an hour later at approximately 16.35.
As we were arriving at Johannesburg we were advised that, due to a thunderstorm, the airfield had been temporarily closed and that we would need to refuel in Durban before returning once the weather had settled.
Whilst refuelling, passengers with connecting flights (including ourselves) had their details taken and were advised that the relevant parties at Johannesburg airport would be made aware of our plight.
We departed Durban at 19.10 and arrived at Johannesburg approximately 20.05 and were advised prior to disembarking that representatives from our airline (BA) would be waiting for us to shuttle us to our waiting flights. However, there was nobody there to meet us and we, along with approximately 50 other passengers for various other connecting flights, ran towards connections with the gradual realisation that our flight had closed.
When we reached International Departures we were told that our plane was still on the runway but we were to head to BA ticket sales where we were advised that we were not automatically booked on the next connecting flight at 21.50 and would have to head to the Comair ticket sales back in domestic departures to be rebooked.
We were then informed at Comair ticket sales that BA had refused to hold the flight and that we were unable to catch the 21.50 due to lack of availability and were rebooked on the 20.15 flight the following day and given a voucher for a room along with dinner / breakfast at a nearby hotel.
The following morning we found out that the flight we were attempting to catch the previous day at 20.15 never took off (after being held on the tarmac for 3 hours) due to an oil leak / mechanical failure and wouldn't have been able taken us home anyway.

So, what do you guys think? Are there any grounds for compensation here?

Thanks so much in advance for your advice

Cheers

Daz

I don't think there are any grounds for compensation. see Article 3.2 (a) of EU Regs 261/2004
2. Paragraph 1 shall apply on the condition that passengers:
(a) have a confirmed reservation on the flight concerned and, except in the case of cancellation referred to in Article 5, present themselves for check-in,
- as stipulated and at the time indicated in advance and in writing (including by electronic means) by the air carrier, the tour operator or an authorised travel agent,
or, if no time is indicated,
- not later than 45 minutes before the published departure time;
You were taken off the flight, therefore did not have a confirmed reservation on the flight concerned when the delay happened.

Dazbang

Thanks for taking the time to respond Symphony63 - it’s kind of what I thought but given the whole thing was such a mess I thought it best to ask!

jpsartre

BB. wrote: »

would the knock on delay rule apply to my flight

There is no such rule. I realize it's often stated in here that knock-on effects of extraordinary circumstances are not extraordinary but it would be more correct to say that they are not automatically extraordinary. Much depends on the details of the specific case and whether the airline could have reasonably avoided the delay.

JPears

BB - The relevant prt of the regulation in the preamble:
(14) As under the Montreal Convention, obligations on operating air carriers should be limited or excluded in cases where an event has been caused by extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken. Such circumstances may, in particular, occur in cases of political instability, meteorological conditions incompatible with the operation of the flight concerned, security risks,......

jpsartre

But keep in mind that those are examples and does not constitute an exhaustive list. It certainly does not entail that knock-on effects of extraordinary circumstances (such as weather delays) are automatically non-extraordinary. They might be but it depends on the details of the specific case.

JPears

Agreed, but the wording "of the flight concerned" is fairly specific when it comes to weather related issues.
Whilst there is a possibility it may not be the intended meaning by the authors of the regulation, its there in black and white so I beleive this stands as a legal arguement.

jpsartre

I agree that if a flight is directly affected by weather, the regulations explicitly state that this would be an extraordinary circumstances. However, that is perfectly compatible with it being equally extraordinary that a flight indirectly affected by weather is also extraordinary (or that it isn't). In those cases that aren't explicitly mentioned, the clause that extraordinary circumstances are those that could not reasonably have been avoided comes into play. For instance, if a down-route weather delay causes a small delay (say 30 minutes) to a passenger's flight which then causes a misconnection and a 3 hour delay at the final destination it is usually not the kind of thing the airline could have avoided. On the other hand, bad weather several days would usually not count as extraordinary since the airline would have had plenty of time to solve the problems.

EmmaS123456

Hi,

I was looking for people's thoughts on a flight cancellation and also if anyone's had previous similar experience.

We were meant to be on ba1440 on the 27th of December but received an email 22 hours before the flight time saying it had been cancelled. BA then booked us on a later flight that day and arrived at our destination airport 4 hours later than planned.

I've written to BA about compensation, however, they are refusing to pay out as say the flight was cancelled due to adverse weather.

There was adverse weathe forecast for the time of the flight but it didn't actually come to anything. A fly be flight scheduled within 10 minutes of our departure time took off and landed fine at the airport.

Can airlines decline compensation due to flights being cancelled due to a bad weather forecast or does the weather have to have actually been bad?

Does my argument sound worth pursuing or should i give up?

Thanks

jpsartre

EmmaS123456 wrote: »

Can airlines decline compensation due to flights being cancelled due to a bad weather forecast or does the weather have to have actually been bad?

I don't have an answer for your question but the exact same thing happened to me recently. As I expected, BA refused compensation, citing adverse weather conditions. I've handed it over to Bott and Co. No resolution yet but will update in here when I hear back from them.

Alan_Bowen

BA had to cancel over 20 short haul flights from Heathrow that day. I believe Air Traffic Control imposed a reduced flow of arrivals and departures due to the weather and since BA have more flights than anyone else, they had to reduce the number of flights they operated that day. As this was outside their control, I doubt you will have any success in claiming, Flybe with less than 10 flights a day would not have been affected but then you would have had to fly Flybe, and that wouldn't be my choice