Lunch with Colleagues - don't know what to do

Sambucus_Nigra

sassyblue wrote: »

Noted, but you also said management have a duty of care to get involved, are you expecting the OP to ask them if they refuse??

They do have a duty of care, who knows what a good manager or a bad manager would decide to do. But pre-warning them that WW3 might kick off later today might be a start.

I'm speaking as an ex-manager - if this was going on in my dept I'd want to know about it before it kicked off, not an explanation after.

GotToChange

I think - as this thread is proving - matters can quickly escalate out of all proportion. You already had an issue with her - hence a disparaging nickname (pish to keeping her identity secret, you could have used X or an initial) and are looking for something bad before considering and exploring another option.

You may think that one email is not spreading it around - but you know the ripple effect/beware - and as for involving the higher-ups; not a good idea with one (albeit discounted) grievance/bullying accusation on the record, you are asking for more trouble (IMVHO).

This is not to say that anything so far is or has been "right" - and that includes the restaurant manager grilling you over coffee and a chat - but I do believe (having been in Thingy's - i.e. the Outsider - place) that you are going about this in all manner of wrong ways.
You have looked for dishonesty before a looking for a reasonable explanation and, from what I am reading and my (FWIW) point of view, will sooner or later be considered to have started something of a witch hunt (as well as looking on the bloody internet for back-up).

I hate this kind of thing and it is why (despite being utterly broke and alone) I would hate to be back in an office environment, worse still in the run-up to Christmas.

ambahall

I am not defending this "thingy" in any way and she is probably just as devious as you believe. However, I know that many restaurants now just hand you the "chip and pin" machine for you to enter your number and don't actually give you the opportunity to add a tip even though the facility is available to them. I think they find it embarassing to have to point out the "add service" button. And many restaurants include service anyway - particularly for groups. £135 is quite a lot of cash in small notes so thingy may genuinely have believed she had paid the restaurant by card what she collected in cash plus her own contribution - at least at the time. So maybe giving her the benefit of the doubt would be the way forward rather than escallating to manager level. Show he the copy of the bill and payment and point out that the money on the table exceeded this and the restaurant had not had their tip which you paid personally in addition later. So if she would like to hand over the extra (plus her £15) it will be all square. Or, to avoid a conflict, get a colleague to say THEY paid the extra and they can repay you on the quiet. If Thingy does not respond to this then it's time to get the Management involved.

heretolearn_2

OP. I think the best course of action would have been to tell the restaurant manager that you didn't arrange the meal but that you would ask the person who did, to phone him. And kept out of it, other than telling the organiser that the restaurant wished to speak to them.

On the duty of care thing ref employer - would this really apply here? It's not an official work outing or event, it's just people who happen to work together arranging to go out. If it were 2 work colleagues deciding to go for lunch together, the employer wouldn't have a duty of care. Does the number of people make a difference here? And would the employer need to be informed in advance of the event and asked for some sort of approval.
Seems a bit rough for employers to be held responsible for what happens at an event they may not even have known was happening, and was arranged informally between work friends...

Mojisola

heretolearn wrote: »

Seems a bit rough for employers to be held responsible for what happens at an event they may not even have known was happening, and was arranged informally between work friends...

I can't see that it's anything to do with the employer. If staff had come to me with an issue like this, I would have told them to sort it out away from work.

The only reason an employer might want to know about it is to be forewarned about any disruption at work arising from deteriorating relationships. I'd be happy with a no-details heads-up - "There's some problems between x and other staff outside of work that may affect their work."

Sambucus_Nigra

Mojisola wrote: »

I can't see that it's anything to do with the employer. If staff had come to me with an issue like this, I would have told them to sort it out away from work.

The only reason an employer might want to know about it is to be forewarned about any disruption at work arising from deteriorating relationships. I'd be happy with a no-details heads-up - "There's some problems between x and other staff outside of work that may affect their work."

What can I say - I have been trained in management and a situation like this is often best sorted out before it kicks off, not after.

sassyblue

Sambucus_Nigra wrote: »

What can I say - I have been trained in management and a situation like this is often best sorted out before it kicks off, not after.

I'm a manager now and l would not get involved. Not because l'm bad at my job but because this was nothing to do with work. You cannot discipline someone for something that happened out of work.

The employee at the butt of these allegations could flounce citing her position was untenable leaving the employer to pick up a bill for thousands if she sued. No thankyou.

Mojisola

Sambucus_Nigra wrote: »

What can I say - I have been trained in management and a situation like this is often best sorted out before it kicks off, not after.

I can see that but it isn't a work issue. Would you get involved if it was an argument that had started at the school gates when parents were dropping their children off or similar situations?

jess1974

Omg what a nightmare, i have to say i try to avoid big lunches or meals out with lots of people for these reasons, the bill at the end is always split, and you always end up paying for way more than you've actually eaten or drank.......good luck OP x

Sambucus_Nigra

sassyblue wrote: »

I'm a manager now and l would not get involved. Not because l'm bad at my job but because this was nothing to do with work. You cannot discipline someone for something that happened out of work.

The employee at the butt of these allegations could flounce citing her position was untenable leaving the employer to pick up a bill for thousands if she sued. No thankyou.

People get disciplined regularly for putting comments on facebook, for baring their !!!!! at a Christmas do, for buying goods in a supermarket when they were signed off sick; for all sorts of reasons. We see them every day over on the Employment board.

Just by saying something happened outside of work does not make it not a work issue. And stealing from 15 colleagues - may well end up being a work issue. I'm not saying it definitively IS - but merely suggesting the OP lets their manager know what is going on and asks their advice on the best way of handling it.

Not that it matters now - the OP has already got the lynch mob out in force.