Not 'doing' Santa

thatgirlsam

mumps wrote: »

I am sure she is gorgeous but acne is horrible and can damage a teenagers self esteem. One of my sons had it, it did bother him, it wasn't quite the worst case of acne I have ever seen but it was up there. I don't know how bad your daughter's acne is but this might be an occasion for dealing with it if it is bad. If you see her doctor there are various prescriptions that can deal with this. My son went through the lot and ended up on Roaccutane, I agonised about this due to the side effects but I am glad we went with it. His sister had milder acne and topical antibiotics worked like magic. I think she sometimes forgot the tact thing when advising friends to get some, but they generally did and thanked her in the end.

Absolutley would not allow her to take Roaccutane. I beleive this drug should be taken off the market. Glad your son has had no permanent side effects but there are many who do.

At the moment we are working with the keeping it very clean, the tea tree face wash from body shop is helping, and I have to nag her to moisturise, as if she doesn't it gets more oily.

Thanks for your advice though - it isn't the worst acne I've ever seen but she just wants to be 'picture perfect' all the time

Mojisola

OrkneyStar wrote: »

Why ? Can you explain your last line more, genuinely interested in how you draw that conclusion and prepared to have a lightbulb (cannot find the wee lightbulb!) moment!

It would feel like that to me because the person wouldn't be telling the truth - "No, I think your dress looks awful on you" - they would be deflecting the question with whatever answer they gave.

It doesn't take a lot of interpersonal skills to spot when someone isn't answering the question - is failing to tell the truth - by substituting another answer.

mumps

thatgirlsam wrote: »

Absolutley would not allow her to take Roaccutane. I beleive this drug should be taken off the market. Glad your son has had no permanent side effects but there are many who do.

At the moment we are working with the keeping it very clean, the tea tree face wash from body shop is helping, and I have to nag her to moisturise, as if she doesn't it gets more oily.

Thanks for your advice though - it isn't the worst acne I've ever seen but she just wants to be 'picture perfect' all the time

Roaccutane is the last resort, the doctor can prescribe other things and in my experience they start with topical antibiotics and build up. I was very concerned about him using Roaccutane, I work in mental health and talked to a psychiatrist I work with about the pros and cons. I wouldn't want to do it again and watched him like a hawk but he was fine on it, the worst thing was the occasional nose bleed and he did end up picture perfect. (well I know I am biased but )

I hope she does OK, I never suffered with spots but I can see how miserable it must be for a teenager.

Welshwoofs

mumps wrote: »

"Isn't my baby one of the cutest you've ever seen?" Just yes, always! response- no my baby was the cutest lol, laughing with wink! seriously aren't babies great?

Or if you're me - you answer "No babies are cute - now puppies, they're cute."

skintchick

I'm not sure if I should even come back on here, as the thread has that feeling threads sometimes get of having moved from a general discussion to more of a majority ganing-up on a minority of posters who share an unpopular view.

But I'll stick my head above the parapet one more time because i've been asked some direct questions and it would be rude not to answer them. I've collected my posts to be quoted as I've read through, but there are so many that I don;t think I can group them into any kind of order, although they are on themses, I'll just answer them as they come.

It's going to be a long one again!

Person_one wrote: »

Of course people will 'take it' fine, most people are very polite and won't call you out on BS even if they can spot it a mile away.

"Does this dress look ok on me?" if they're just walking into a wedding or interview and there's no way they can change it, just say 'yes'.

"Is my ex husband's new wife prettier/cleverer than me?" Just say no.

"Isn't my baby one of the cutest you've ever seen?" Just yes, always!

There are tons of situations where telling a white lie is completely harmless and is a real kindness to the other person. I think your own desire to maintain a pretty pointless standard should come second to other people's feelings, even if you can get away with it most of the time, why is it so important?

OK, my main problem with the posts that have asked this kind of thing (this one is just the first chronologically) is that they assume there are only two kinds of answer: yes you look great or no you look !!!!!.

In reality, there are many shades of grey (oo-er) within those extremes.

"Does this dress look ok on me?"
First, this depends on what is really being asked, but let's assume it's a new dress and the question is really'do you like it?' (rather than it being an old dress and the question being 'does it fit ok'? for example.

We're assuming here that I don;t really like the dress, yes? But I'm being asked does it look ok.

Choose from one (or more!) of the following:
It fits you really well/I love the colour on you/ That pattern is stunning/ That shape really suits your shape/ I love the embellishment on it.

WHat's wrong with those? There is always something positive to say, always. It is very unlikely that someone has got themselves a dress that fits like a sack and is truly the most awful thing you've ever seen. Plus, if someone is asking 'do I look OK' then you must be someone they trust, so if they really ARE wearing something that looks appalling, then as someone they trust you shouldn't lie! In that instance, I'd mix positive with constructive criticism, so something like "THe colour is fabulous but I don't think the cut does much to enhance your shape, let's grab a belt and and see if that brings your waist out better".

"Is my ex husband's new wife prettier/cleverer than me?"
Right, so this is my friend talking. In which case my actual answer would be "what the hell kind of question is that missus?! Who cares!"

Because in reality only someone who knew you well and was close to you would ask you a question like that, and because at the heart of question is insecurity, she doesn't need any kind of answer, she needs space to talk about hos she feels that her ex has got a new wife.

So I'd be more likely to follow up my reply with "It must be hard for you to see him with someone else, especially someone you think is prettier, but you are totally gorgeous, you do know that don't you?"

Which written down sounds a bit patronising BUT reflecting back feelings is a recognised active listening technique used by almost all counsellors, and I'm trained in it and use it at work, so I'm good at it not sounding patronising. It just never looks good written down!

"Isn't my baby one of the cutest you've ever seen?"

My reply " He is absolutely adorable! Look at his lovely nose,I love their soft skin, ooh he smells divine, can I have a cuddle?"

Because I love babies! And I love newborns especially! They're what I work with, and I love them ALL. I never think they're ugly, no matter how bruised or cut or yellow.

pulliptears wrote: »

Here's one. Picture a small child, aged around 4. He's been ill on and off throughout his short life with a brain tumor.

The tumor returns just after his 4th birthday and he says "Mummy am I going to die"

Do you use the white lie and let him live out the rest of his days happily and worry free, or do you tell him the truth and let him worry.

I'd say "well, sweetie, we're all going to die one day, and for some people that's sooner than we'd like. But we don;t know when you're going to die, so let's just enjoy every day."

It depends a bit on the child, but my DD is 3.5 and that's what I'd say to her. THen i'd answer any questions. And if she asked if she was going to die soon, then I'd say "yes, darling you are, but we don;t know when so let's not focus on that, let's love each other and enjoy each other while we're all still together".

I know that approach wouldn't be right for everyone, but it would be for my family.

And if someone else's child asked me that, it wouldn;t be my place to answer. I'd use the everyone dies line and then leave it up to the parents to respond further.

The truly honest answer to "when am I going to die?" would be "I don't know" so that's a useable answer as well. in that kind of situation, it would be very much about playing it by ear, I'd imagine.

Nicki wrote: »

Not in my opinion.

If a bride asked me, decked in her finery just before leaving for church, how she looked, my immediate answer would be along the lines of "You look absolutely beautiful" whether her dress was to my taste or not. And it would be said in such a way that she would believe that she did. I can't believe ANYONE thinks that any other answer is acceptable or not unkind

But again, like the baby question, that would not be a lie. "Yoi look beautiful/amazing/radiant/fantastic/so special" any or all of those would be true for every bride, because every bride radiates a special beauty on her wedding day.

thatgirlsam wrote: »

My dd who is 13 is going through a spotty phase

This morning she asks me - Does my face look ok Mum?

So I said yes, of course, you look fine, quit worrying.

Should I actually have said, no love, your face looks like a pizza today?

I think this has been answered really. I like others would say something like "IT doesn't look as bad as you think sweetie, what's worrying you about it?"

I'd get to the heart of it, because she might just want to be reassured it's not as bad as she thinks (and it never is because as a teen we think it's the end of the world to have spots and as adults we don;t see it like that), or she might want sme practical help, either with applying a spot treatment, or maybe a little concealer.

I would tease out the worry behind the question, and deal with that.

pulliptears wrote: »

This was many years ago, he had a reoccurring brain tumor, he beat it once, sadly the second time was inoperable.

The point is it can never be as black and white as some people on here make out.

Another example is when I was nursing my Dad who died from lung cancer, we kept many things from my Mum at Dad's request because it was better for her not to worry. When she asked why we needed dark towels we lied and said we didn't especially but they look cleaner for longer. We didn't say "because with lung cancer you can haemorrhage blood from your mouth and bleed to death so the MacMillan nurses advised us to have dark towels so its less upsetting should that happen.

If my Mother had known that she would never have slept without worry, she would never have left his side. After Dad died and she found out the extent of what Dad and I had kept from her she was grateful because she was spared the true horrors of it.

So many extreme examples, but to me they all illustrate why its sometimes better to paint a different picture.

But the answer "We decided to have a change" isn;t a lie. It might not be the main truthful reason, but it is also not untrue. Nor is "They don;t show the dirt as much" so I'd have thought one of those kinds of answers would be absolutely fine.

There would be no need to be bluntly awful and talk about the blood!

pulliptears wrote: »

So we have established this....

Your wedding dress is like a trifle
Your baby resembles Winston Churchill
The new wife is a stunner, much better than you love
No dear that dress is horrid
Hey Muldoon how's it going
Santa? No sweetie its your Dad.

Tongue in cheek perhaps, but for all the above reasons I'm happy to be a liar

No-one would say that though! At least none of the people who have posted on here.

It goes back to what I said at the earlier - it's not an either/or situation.

thatgirlsam wrote: »

Same thing, if she has acne and Dad says acne is horrible, then that means her acne is horrible

Far too harsh for me - girls can be really insecure about this stuff and a knock to the confidence now from someone like your Dad could last a lifetime! Sounds dramatic but this is the sort of thing that can damage you!

Hmm, well that's how my mum talked to me when I had bad acne, along with helping me buy spot treatments, and showing me how to use concealer on them, and I felt encouraged and built up by her, because she gave me both emotional and physical tools to cope.

pulliptears wrote: »

Those responses conjure one word to me - Patronising.

Mojisola wrote: »

I think the people who refuse to tell the little white lies underestimate other people's ability to read between the lines.

You might think you're being honest - to me it feels more like a lie of omission.

You don't think the same applies if you lie?

So your daughter has bad acne, you tell her "you look fine".

Will she not think "no I bloody don't. I look spotty and awful!! Mum's just lying to me to make me feel better. THat's so patronising"

Surely people can read between the lines on a lie? I certainly can.

Person_one wrote: »

Its not your job, but its much kinder, does that not matter to you?

Why is the refusal to tell any white lie more important than the other person's feelings? Nobody's actually answered the 'why' bit yet.

It's not. The two are not incompatible.

My aim is to tell the truth AND take people's feelings into account.

Treevo wrote: »

So what was the point of the thread if not to troll? You appear to have all your answers nicely packaged up.

THe OP said in the very first post that this thread was inspired by a comment on another thread, and that he had been asked to make this issue into a discussion of its own.

No trolling here.

Eton_Rifle wrote: »

To bring it back, Notanewuser, I think teaching children the concept of Santa is very worthwhile.

The whole point of Santa is charity without glory.

It's anonymously giving without getting any reward back from the act. It's about the recipient, not how wonderful the gift giver is. It's not seeking praise.



Without this anonymous concept, what do we get? We will still get the humanitarian act but it will have strings attached

.

It's not anonymous. It's from Father Christmas/Santa. If you know who it is from, then it isn't anonymous, is it?

If you meanit's anonymous because FC doesn;t really exist, then that relies on the recipient KNOWING that he doesn't exist, which is what this whole thread is about!

Well done for reading this far everyone. This is proving an interesting and mostly civilised chat.

seven-day-weekend

thatgirlsam wrote: »

He would have told her that her acne was horrible??

Aww! Gee, thanks Dad!!

No, he meant that having acne is horrible, the same as having the flu is horrible. Then he would have sympathised and told her she was wonderful

And we would also have got her some medical help for it if bad enough. Our son had to have special shampoo on prescription for seborrhoeic dermatitis when he was a teenager. (another nasty condition that affects teenagers).

Person_one

Welshwoofs wrote: »

Or if you're me - you answer "No babies are cute - now puppies, they're cute."

Never miss an opportunity do you WW?

thatgirlsam

Person_one wrote: »

Never miss an opportunity do you WW?

I've been told my puppies are cute

Mojisola

skintchick wrote: »

You don't think the same applies if you lie?

So your daughter has bad acne, you tell her "you look fine".

Will she not think "no I bloody don't. I look spotty and awful!! Mum's just lying to me to make me feel better. THat's so patronising"

Surely people can read between the lines on a lie? I certainly can.

I think on a lot of occasions, people aren't asking for an honest critique - it's rather like asking someone you meet "How are you?" - most people don't really want an honest answer about all the person's aches and pains, an "Alright, thanks" will do.

"You look fine" might be just the reassurance that the youngster is looking for. Like most of these scenarios, it depends on the circumstances and the person involved - if, from experience, you know the person would feel patronised, you'd have to find something else to say.

It's just as likely that side-stepping the issue by saying something truthful but not giving your honest opinion would also make the person feel patronised.

If a quick "You're fine" gives that little bit of confidence, they're out the door and don't give what you said another thought, that would be appropriate.

Person_one

skintchick wrote: »

I'm not sure if I should even come back on here, as the thread has that feeling threads sometimes get of having moved from a general discussion to more of a majority ganging-up on a minority of posters who share an unpopular view.

That's a bit paranoid.

Nobody here knows anyone in real life, there's no conspiracy or 'gang'.

When the vast majority disagree with you, sometimes its as simple as you being wrong.