Not 'doing' Santa

OrkneyStar

pulliptears wrote: »

This was many years ago, he had a reoccurring brain tumor, he beat it once, sadly the second time was inoperable.

The point is it can never be as black and white as some people on here make out.

Another example is when I was nursing my Dad who died from lung cancer, we kept many things from my Mum at Dad's request because it was better for her not to worry. When she asked why we needed dark towels we lied and said we didn't especially but they look cleaner for longer. We didn't say "because with lung cancer you can haemorrhage blood from your mouth and bleed to death so the MacMillan nurses advised us to have dark towels so its less upsetting should that happen.

If my Mother had known that she would never have slept without worry, she would never have left his side. After Dad died and she found out the extent of what Dad and I had kept from her she was grateful because she was spared the true horrors of it.

So many extreme examples, but to me they all illustrate why its sometimes better to paint a different picture.

I can completely see where you are coming from, and tbh I can see why you all did as you did, in this case. I am not sure what I would do, but I know I would not feel comfortable lying (not saying you felt comfortable either!).

A bit of my story-
My dad died when I was 17 ish. He had been ill for a while. I knew this, mum never hid it, and as a result I spent much much more time with him than normal kids my age. Perhaps if I had been shielded and thought he might get better then I would not have made the same effort to spend time with him (lets face it when you are a teenager there are a lot more exciting things to do than chat to a bed-bound dad!). So in some ways her honesty allowed me something I might not have had. Also when he did finally die, of course I was sad, but I was accepting as I knew he was ready to go and felt I had been there all I could.

mumps

OrkneyStar wrote: »

Yep, though apparently not acceptable responses.........:rotfl:

I respect honesty but don't worship it. When I was a vulnerable, weepy, new mom with a baby who looked like the equivalent of the puppy no one would pick at dogs home, I needed to be reassured. I needed to be told he was beautiful (at that stage he wasn't) that he was perfect (he was and is) and people who hadn't the guts to acknowledge he was bruised and swollen which made him look a bit of a character but that he would be fine when he healed or polite enough to say he was gorgeous added to my depression. That depression affected my relationship with my other children (for a time I was overly concerned with one child to the detriment of the others) affected by health (I was treated for depression) and affected my marriage as my husband was ill at the time and found it hard to cope with me as I found it hard to sympathise with his problems when all I could do was worry about my baby.

Now you might say you had to be honest, you might think my mental health isn't your responsibility but aren't we all a bit responsible for each other. Just say one of those people made their patronising comments at the wrong moment and I decided to take an overdose and take baby with me? Believe me it was that bad. Do you think they might just have felt a little bit worse about that than they would have about saying, "He is gorgeous."

OrkneyStar

mumps wrote: »

I respect honesty but don't worship it. When I was a vulnerable, weepy, new mom with a baby who looked like the equivalent of the puppy no one would pick at dogs home, I needed to be reassured. I needed to be told he was beautiful (at that stage he wasn't) that he was perfect (he was and is) and people who hadn't the guts to acknowledge he was bruised and swollen which made him look a bit of a character but that he would be fine when he healed or polite enough to say he was gorgeous added to my depression. That depression affected my relationship with my other children (for a time I was overly concerned with one child to the detriment of the others) affected by health (I was treated for depression) and affected my marriage as my husband was ill at the time and found it hard to cope with me as I found it hard to sympathise with his problems when all I could do was worry about my baby.

Now you might say you had to be honest, you might think my mental health isn't your responsibility but aren't we all a bit responsible for each other. Just say one of those people made their patronising comments at the wrong moment and I decided to take an overdose and take baby with me? Believe me it was that bad. Do you think they might just have felt a little bit worse about that than they would have about saying, "He is gorgeous."

I would honestly say he was beautiful (every new life is despite the bumps, lumps, and whatever else may be there/missing)- I mean that honestly. I would also tell you that you were amazing, because anyone who brings forth new life is amazing, regardless of what they did before or will do after. I would also tell you that your time now is precious, and you are very important, so please look after yourself. Depending on how well I knew you I might offer help, tell you about any baby 'things' that might be happening (groups etc).
I don't feel I am responsible for making someone feel good about a dress or whatever, but I agree we all need to care about each other.
Hope that explains it a bit.

OrkneyStar

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

I would probably say that too, because SHE looks beautiful, even if you don't like her dress.

That's what I was alluding to with the 'happy and radiant' bit .

seven-day-weekend

mumps wrote: »

I respect honesty but don't worship it. When I was a vulnerable, weepy, new mom with a baby who looked like the equivalent of the puppy no one would pick at dogs home, I needed to be reassured. I needed to be told he was beautiful (at that stage he wasn't) that he was perfect (he was and is) and people who hadn't the guts to acknowledge he was bruised and swollen which made him look a bit of a character but that he would be fine when he healed or polite enough to say he was gorgeous added to my depression. That depression affected my relationship with my other children (for a time I was overly concerned with one child to the detriment of the others) affected by health (I was treated for depression) and affected my marriage as my husband was ill at the time and found it hard to cope with me as I found it hard to sympathise with his problems when all I could do was worry about my baby.

Now you might say you had to be honest, you might think my mental health isn't your responsibility but aren't we all a bit responsible for each other. Just say one of those people made their patronising comments at the wrong moment and I decided to take an overdose and take baby with me? Believe me it was that bad. Do you think they might just have felt a little bit worse about that than they would have about saying, "He is gorgeous."

I feel for you and of course we are all responsible towards others.

However, people might not have realised you felt like that and might have thought that by not mentioning his problems that they did not care about them. It's not always easy to know the right way to respond.

I was talking to a friend of mine today (all our children are now grown). She was made to feel guilty for being a SAHM when she had a brain , and for enjoying their childhood. I was made to feel guilty for being a SAHM when I ahd a brain, and for not enjoying breastfeeding or childrearing . She was made to feel bad for having three children, I was made to feel selfish for only having one.

The point I am making is, we don't always know how another feels and sometimes don't respond appropriately. It does not mean we are being deliberately unkind.

I would probably have said something similar to Orkney Star (above) and for similar reasons.

mumps

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

I feel for you and of course we are all responsible towards others.

However, people might not have realised you felt like that and might have thought that by not mentioning his problems that they did not care about them. It's not always easy to know the right way to respond.

I was talking to a friend of mine today (all our children are now grown). She was made to feel guilty for being a SAHM when she had a brain , and for enjoying their childhood. I was made to feel guilty for being a SAHM when I ahd a brain, and for not enjoying breastfeeding or childrearing . She was made to feel bad for having three children, I was made to feel selfish for only having one.

The point I am making is, we don't always know how another feels and sometimes don't respond appropriately. It does not mean we are being deliberately unkind.

I would probably have said something similar to Orkney Star (above) and for similar reasons.

People fell into three groups, the people who lied to me and said he was beautiful - it was what I needed to hear and was fine.
The people who were honest and said something like, Poor little mite he has been through the wars but won't he be a stunner when the bruising/swelling goes. It was fine, we could all see his problems but he would be OK. The third group, the people who couldn't lie but needed to feel better about themselves by finding something nice to say like he looks a strong boy. made me feel bad because it was clear they could see his problems but they were so awful they couldn't be acknowledged. That it why I had those comments that avoid lying but don't actually tell the truth. Your example about the ex's new wife, if you said that stuff about not having such nice eyes or something means yes, she is more beautiful than you and the difference is so horrific we can't be honest about it.

Maybe because I work in mental health I do always try to consider how someone is feeling. In my case if I look at photos of me with my son I don't know how anyone could have not noticed that I was a walking car crash.

notanewuser

Sarah715 wrote: »

It's up to each individual, but I think it's a shame not to let kids join in with the magic! This also runs the risk of spoiling it for other children as kids will tell each other santa isn't real! Christmas is so magical for children, but that said i can also understand reasons for not doing the santa thing.

You've missed the point. It's not about saying they can't get involved, or that he's not real, it's about not telling them something is real when it isn't.

Is this really such a difficult concept?

My daughter can count to 15. When it comes to learning her sums, should I just tell her all the answers because its easier, or should I let her work it out for herself? Same with Santa/tooth fairy/religion. If she wants to take part having come to it HERSELF then that's fine. I'm not going to tell her something is real/happens when it doesn't. End of.

Treevo

notanewuser wrote: »

You've missed the point. It's not about saying they can't get involved, or that he's not real, it's about not telling them something is real when it isn't.

Is this really such a difficult concept?

My daughter can count to 15. When it comes to learning her sums, should I just tell her all the answers because its easier, or should I let her work it out for herself? Same with Santa/tooth fairy/religion. If she wants to take part having come to it HERSELF then that's fine. I'm not going to tell her something is real/happens when it doesn't. End of.

So what was the point of the thread if not to troll? You appear to have all your answers nicely packaged up.

GracieP

JimmyTheWig wrote: »

I don't think the OP is not doing Santa because Santa is religious.
I think their point is they don't want to tell their child that something that doesn't exist, does exist. Which, presumably, is their same logic for not telling their child that god exists.

Apples and coal, tbh.

When adults bring children up to believe in a religion it's because the adults actually believe in the religion and want their children to grow up believing in it for the rest of their lives because they believe that is the truth of the universe. When adults bring their children up to believe in Santa, the adults know full that there is no Santa and only intend for their children to believe in this fiction for a few years. It's a way of letting their kids live in a pleasant fairytale for a period of their childhoods.

It's also a great tool for learning about atheism as it is an immersive way for a child to experience just how easy it is to believe totally in something that doesn't exist and how it's possible to move on from that belief.

OrkneyStar

mumps wrote: »

People fell into three groups, the people who lied to me and said he was beautiful - it was what I needed to hear and was fine.
The people who were honest and said something like, Poor little mite he has been through the wars but won't he be a stunner when the bruising/swelling goes. It was fine, we could all see his problems but he would be OK. The third group, the people who couldn't lie but needed to feel better about themselves by finding something nice to say like he looks a strong boy. made me feel bad because it was clear they could see his problems but they were so awful they couldn't be acknowledged. That it why I had those comments that avoid lying but don't actually tell the truth. Your example about the ex's new wife, if you said that stuff about not having such nice eyes or something means yes, she is more beautiful than you and the difference is so horrific we can't be honest about it.

Maybe because I work in mental health I do always try to consider how someone is feeling. In my case if I look at photos of me with my son I don't know how anyone could have not noticed that I was a walking car crash.

I honestly would say he was beautiful, not lying, but because I find all new life a beautiful thing. If I new you better/was more close to you I might say something about injuries/bruising, that sort of thing, out of concern. I do think you are right in a way, but then not everyone can go about analysing how everything they say might affect someones else's mental health. Of course don't be down-right horrible but you cannot always anticipate a reaction to something.