Infrared Heating Panels

fishybusiness

Clearly you and others will post a defence of your purchase, most human beings even if they have made an expensive disaster will say nothing or try to offer a defence based on immeasurable and ethereal opinions, very few are prepared to openly admit they made a mistake - 'confirmation bias' is a normal human nature trait.

Cuts both ways don´t you think?

Why not just wait and see? Giving someone a chance to explain their thinking, especially when they have committed to a purchase, will probably bring more useful information to the forum rather than scaring people off.

Cardew

Richie-from-the-Boro wrote: »

Clearly you and others will post a defence of your purchase, most human beings even if they have made an expensive disaster will say nothing or try to offer a defence based on immeasurable and ethereal opinions, very few are prepared to openly admit they made a mistake - 'confirmation bias' is a normal human nature trait.

Having bought two Betamax video cassettes and a Toshiba HD DVD system, let me tell you that VHS cassettes and Blu-Ray will never catch on!

Richie-from-the-Boro

fishybusiness wrote: »

Cuts both ways don´t you think?

- no, I don't agree
- its a very expensive outlay without a counter view before the purchase is made
- after reading here any individual having read both views can make a decision and purchase or not
- you for example have exercised your rights and properly posted your views here relentlessly
- I'm sure Themaddog will continue to post his/her view too and quite rightly too

This latest round started because someone posted a comparison of the coldest month for decades compared to a warmest month for decades - its not a comparison - and I said so. There is far too much nonobjective affectional bavardage presented as evidence. Its not evidence its an opinion that just does not hold water, you can not compare a cold months use with a hot months use.

Richie-from-the-Boro

Cardew wrote: »

Having bought two Betamax video cassettes and a Toshiba HD DVD system, let me tell you that VHS cassettes and Blu-Ray will never catch on!

VHS was millions of times better than B-Max, but as you say that 'standards' big money battle was lost and we ended with a decade of inferior product till the DVD let alone the HD-DVD came along. My post VHS choice of tool was the DAT tape camera and a DAT player, pure zero's and ones exactly the same as the later DVD. :beer:

fishybusiness

no, I don't agree

My point being that there is little evidence either way, no reports or studies defining IR panel heating as being a con, no consumer warnings from trading authorities, and at the same time few independent studies defining parameters of use of IR panels, and any advantages.

There is far too much nonobjective affectional bavardage presented as evidence. Its not evidence its an opinion that just does not hold water, you can not compare a cold months use with a hot months use.

Indeed, so why not give a poster a year or so to come back and report on their subjective feeling of comfort (or not), plus running costs? All it needs is a polite forum to hang on in there

Themaddog

Richie-from-the-Boro wrote: »

- no, I don't agree
- its a very expensive outlay without a counter view before the purchase is made,

WHAT I SPEND MY MONEY ON IS MY CHOICE AND, IF RIGHT OR WRONG I WILL BE PREPARED TO TAKE THAT CHOICE ON THE CHIN!!

don't try to insult my intelligence by taking a chance ..that's how the world works many examples of people taking the chance with a product are very widely documented

Your Right and of course you have your choice, like should i buy this expensive car or that one.....bet you think the best car in the world and the most cost effective is the one you drive!!

look at Skoda the worst car in the world, and you shouldn't touch this with a barge pole bet somewhere on here i can find a post about mister negative saying how bad they are and, its this or that and now the preferred choice of some of the Boys in Blue pursuit Cars....Skoda Octavia RS

- after reading here any individual having read both views can make a decision and purchase or not
- you for example have exercised your rights and properly posted your views here relentlessly


and i have also noted on here that you go out of your way to discredit it

- I'm sure Themaddog will continue to post his/her view too and quite rightly too

Have to say after the posts on here, why waste my time

This latest round started because someone posted a comparison of the coldest month for decades compared to a warmest month for decades - its not a comparison - and I said so.

November 2012 was used because it was the first recorded evidence i have, nothing more,........was it the coldest in decades i think December 2010 was colder in fact i still have the dents in my bonnet from the 3 foot plus icicles that were hanging off the guttering

Your Right and that is why people don't bother putting posts on Forums for fear of the Tomato and cabbage throwing people


It doesn't matter what people have for heating as long as it keeps them warm and i have the privilege of having a bit set aside to take the chance........and i have that's my choice, and if its wrong then that's fine ill stand by that fact.

Mr Dyson said i have a revolutionary idea its a little bit expensive but in the long run it will save you on the cost of bags ,Mr Hoover said it will never work...too expensive and the owners of hoovers said this will never work too expensive not cost effective Blar Blar Blar.....what is the best most cost effective hoover on the market and how many other companies have followed suit?

Road_Hog

daveyjp wrote: »

They can't reduce heating costs because as mentioned previosuly all electric heating is 100% efficient.

What complete and utter piffle. Let's put this in the context that people are talking about.


If you buy a 2kW floor heater, it does not provide you with 2kW of heat, it merely means that it consumes that amount of power.


It is not 100% efficient in converting consumed power into heating. If this sort of thing was fact, then you could buy ten 100w panel TVs and get the same effect as a 1kW floor heater.


When we talk about efficiency here, were talking about power consumption versus thermal heat output. I could build you a nice multi-valve radio that could consume several hundred Watts, but it wouldn't give you much heat.


But let's stop waving willys about hear and talking technical. I'm from a sales background, although I have a decent technical background.


The questions are, what is best for me as a customer. It's quite possible that these fitted panels are more efficient than a floor heater or other devices. What you have to consider is, are the savings worth the initial capital outlay and will you recoup your money. On the other hand, aesthetically, having a couple of £10 floor heaters doesn't really add to the ambience of your house and the panel heaters will look better.


My own personal thoughts are, that the units are overpriced and for many people, there are far better (and cheaper ways) of heating their home.

Cardew

Road_Hog wrote: »

What complete and utter piffle. Let's put this in the context that people are talking about.

If you buy a 2kW floor heater, it does not provide you with 2kW of heat, it merely means that it consumes that amount of power.

It is not 100% efficient in converting consumed power into heating. If this sort of thing was fact, then you could buy ten 100w panel TVs and get the same effect as a 1kW floor heater.

When we talk about efficiency here, were talking about power consumption versus thermal heat output. I could build you a nice multi-valve radio that could consume several hundred Watts, but it wouldn't give you much heat.


But let's stop waving willys about hear and talking technical. I'm from a sales background, although I have a decent technical background.


The questions are, what is best for me as a customer. It's quite possible that these fitted panels are more efficient than a floor heater or other devices. What you have to consider is, are the savings worth the initial capital outlay and will you recoup your money. On the other hand, aesthetically, having a couple of £10 floor heaters doesn't really add to the ambience of your house and the panel heaters will look better.


My own personal thoughts are, that the units are overpriced and for many people, there are far better (and cheaper ways) of heating their home.

I accept that you are from a sales background and not a technical background, but you really shouldn't pronounce on something you do not understand.


Power is defined as the rate at which work is done. So Power = energy/time.

Ten 100 watt panel TVs would produce exactly the same amount of heat as a 1 kW floor heater - if they ran for the same time; e.g. if they ran for 1 hour they would both consume 1kWh and produce the same amount of heat.


You can measure that heat in joules, British thermal unit(BTU) or calories.


Your nice multi-valve radio(those were the days!) would produce exactly the same amount of heat, for the power consumed, as any other heater/electrical appliance - again for the same consumption.


Now 'in the context that people are talking about'(as you put it) it is absolutely the case that any electrical heater* consuming, say 1kWh, will produce EXACTLY the same amount of heat. It doesn't matter if it is a fan heater, a radiator filled with any substance, IR panels, granny's 1/2/3 bar heater etc etc.


So it is absolutely true to state that all forms of electrical heating are 100% efficient.


What people can legitimately argue about is the effectiveness of various forms of heating. It would obviously be more effective to point an IR heater toward someone sitting at a bench in a garage, than heat the whole garage.






* In case people raise the issue of heat pumps, they are not electrical heaters. They are devices for transferring heat from outside a property to inside that property. - and the opposite when reversed into Air conditioning mode.

espresso

Road_Hog wrote: »

What complete and utter piffle. Let's put this in the context that people are talking about.


If you buy a 2kW floor heater, it does not provide you with 2kW of heat, it merely means that it consumes that amount of power.


It is not 100% efficient in converting consumed power into heating. If this sort of thing was fact, then you could buy ten 100w panel TVs and get the same effect as a 1kW floor heater.


When we talk about efficiency here, were talking about power consumption versus thermal heat output. I could build you a nice multi-valve radio that could consume several hundred Watts, but it wouldn't give you much heat.


But let's stop waving willys about hear and talking technical. I'm from a sales background, although I have a decent technical background.


The questions are, what is best for me as a customer. It's quite possible that these fitted panels are more efficient than a floor heater or other devices. What you have to consider is, are the savings worth the initial capital outlay and will you recoup your money. On the other hand, aesthetically, having a couple of £10 floor heaters doesn't really add to the ambience of your house and the panel heaters will look better.


My own personal thoughts are, that the units are overpriced and for many people, there are far better (and cheaper ways) of heating their home.

This is why sales people should never be trusted - a little 'technical knowledge' is a dangerous thing and is worthless!

lstar337

Themaddog wrote: »

Richie-from-the-Boro wrote: »

- no, I don't agree
- its a very expensive outlay without a counter view before the purchase is made,

WHAT I SPEND MY MONEY ON IS MY CHOICE AND, IF RIGHT OR WRONG I WILL BE PREPARED TO TAKE THAT CHOICE ON THE CHIN!!

don't try to insult my intelligence by taking a chance ..that's how the world works many examples of people taking the chance with a product are very widely documented

Your Right and of course you have your choice, like should i buy this expensive car or that one.....bet you think the best car in the world and the most cost effective is the one you drive!!

look at Skoda the worst car in the world, and you shouldn't touch this with a barge pole bet somewhere on here i can find a post about mister negative saying how bad they are and, its this or that and now the preferred choice of some of the Boys in Blue pursuit Cars....Skoda Octavia RS

- after reading here any individual having read both views can make a decision and purchase or not
- you for example have exercised your rights and properly posted your views here relentlessly


and i have also noted on here that you go out of your way to discredit it

- I'm sure Themaddog will continue to post his/her view too and quite rightly too

Have to say after the posts on here, why waste my time

This latest round started because someone posted a comparison of the coldest month for decades compared to a warmest month for decades - its not a comparison - and I said so.

November 2012 was used because it was the first recorded evidence i have, nothing more,........was it the coldest in decades i think December 2010 was colder in fact i still have the dents in my bonnet from the 3 foot plus icicles that were hanging off the guttering

Your Right and that is why people don't bother putting posts on Forums for fear of the Tomato and cabbage throwing people


It doesn't matter what people have for heating as long as it keeps them warm and i have the privilege of having a bit set aside to take the chance........and i have that's my choice, and if its wrong then that's fine ill stand by that fact.

Mr Dyson said i have a revolutionary idea its a little bit expensive but in the long run it will save you on the cost of bags ,Mr Hoover said it will never work...too expensive and the owners of hoovers said this will never work too expensive not cost effective Blar Blar Blar.....what is the best most cost effective hoover on the market and how many other companies have followed suit?

I don't mean to 'kick' you Themaddog, but as this is a money saving advice forum, I feel it would be irresponsible to not advise against a system such as yours, when even your own submitted evidence** proves that the system is expensive to both purchase and run.

**You claim it has cost you around the same amount to heat your place last year when it was extremely cold, as this year when it has been much much warmer. I saw a reduction of 40% on cost between this and last November, you saw almost no reduction.