Infrared Heating Panels

long_pockets

Every one has to start somewhere I'm sure you had a post count of 3 once, I'm sorry I don't have more yet and also sorry if I have caused any offence.

I don't remember promoting any form of heating but merely enquiring and hopefully getting some answers to the age old question , can I keep warm for less money? Am I wasting money warming up something I don't need to warm up?

If the air will warm up anyway is there any money to be saved? Or is it down to the speed at which this process happens and by keeping more energy in and releasing it slowly can I save money?

I'd use a candle if I thought it was safe and cheaper to run.

lstar337

long_pockets wrote: »

Every one has to start somewhere I'm sure you had a post count of 3 once, I'm sorry I don't have more yet and also sorry if I have caused any offence.

I didn't say you were a spammer outright, just that your posts sounded iffy. If you are not, then I offer my apologies. As you can understand, it agitates me when this site (designed to help people save money) gets abused by people trying to swindle its users by posting adverts disguised as advice.

long_pockets wrote: »

I don't remember promoting any form of heating but merely enquiring and hopefully getting some answers to the age old question , can I keep warm for less money?

Spammers are just so cunning these days its harder to find the line. You hadn't crossed it, but it looked like you were getting close.

long_pockets wrote: »

Am I wasting money warming up something I don't need to warm up?

Maybe. I offered an explanation above, but maybe you didn't 'get it'.

If you heat up an object like a cube of steel, but you don't heat the air around it (this is what an infra red heater would do), then the same heat you put into the steel cube would then heat the air (just indirectly).

Think about a beautiful sunny winters day. The sun is radiating heat down on to you (just like an infra red heater) and you can feel it on your face, but you don't strip down to your board shorts, because the air is so cold that it pulls the heat from your body faster than the sun can put it in. Now think of a summers day where the sun is also radiating down on to you, but the air around you is also hot! Now not even the shade offers you much relief.

The space is the space, and the heat (energy) required to bring all of it up to temperature is the same no matter what heat source you use. A 1kW lamp, a 1kW infra red heater, 1kW toaster, a 1kW curling iron, it makes no difference.

If you want to save money, you need to make your generated heat go further. So insulate as much as you can, or make the space smaller.

long_pockets wrote: »

If the air will warm up anyway is there any money to be saved?

MY point exactly. I would say no. I have not seen anybody explain in a suitable way how any money is saved.

stator

long_pockets wrote: »

I don't remember promoting any form of heating but merely enquiring and hopefully getting some answers to the age old question , can I keep warm for less money? Am I wasting money warming up something I don't need to warm up?

If the air will warm up anyway is there any money to be saved? Or is it down to the speed at which this process happens and by keeping more energy in and releasing it slowly can I save money?
.

Well the point is not to warm up air. The point is to warm up you. If you want your room to be 22 degrees C then any kind of heater is going to cost the same. If you want to feel warm then infrared might be the way to go. To make a room feel warm with an air heater you might have to heat it to 22 degrees. If you just want to feel warm then you might sit in front of an infrared heater and the rest of the room might be 18 degrees but you might be happy.
So there is money to be saved, if your needs fit these specific circumstances.

long_pockets

Thanks for your explanations, and I get the point about heating directly being efficient.

Call me devils advocate, and in my field I have to be. Compared to storage heating has anyone any comments, now forget the cost for now just look at the energy consumed to warm the same space, are you using more for storage heating because the heater is on during the night and warming the room along with the brick when it's not required (the middle of the night) ?

long_pockets

I'm just getting used to this site & meant to add:

Is storage heating the best electric heater available or is it best to use an electric heating source when I'm actually in the room or even awake and need the heat?

lstar337

long_pockets wrote: »

Compared to storage heating has anyone any comments, now forget the cost for now just look at the energy consumed to warm the same space, are you using more for storage heating because the heater is on during the night and warming the room along with the brick when it's not required (the middle of the night) ?

Of course, the storage heater uses more energy because of the storage and the losses that accompany that. But you have to remember that 'losses' in a storage heater are not really losses as they go towards heating the fabric of the building which heats the air and keeps you warm. That is the 'trick' with storage heating, and it is designed to balance out the network by using spare overnight capacity. The low cost of overnight capacity brings the heating cost of night storage closer to gas, which is the cheapest.

Direct electric cannot compete with NSH for cost, no matter what the technology is.

If you have NSH now, the worst possible thing you could do would be to add other forms of direct electric heating.

For direct electric heating you would need to move away from E7, and insulate to the max. Even if you are a very low user you will likely see an increase in bills.

lstar337

long_pockets wrote: »

I'm just getting used to this site & meant to add:

Is storage heating the best electric heater available or is it best to use an electric heating source when I'm actually in the room or even awake and need the heat?

That very much depends on your habits and needs, but if you are on E7 NSH then you will need to think about meter changes, re-wires, and how you are going to heat your water.

If you are not going to leave E7 then any form of additional direct heating is going to cost you.

Have we boiled down to the real question here? Are you really just unhappy with your NSH?

long_pockets

No I have no NSH, just know a few people with them, was just interested to know about alternatives and also intrigued by the Mother-in-law's use of a small radiant panel heater.

I'm an engineer so logic always has to prevail, I just can't get my head around why 160w gives her the same comfort level as 1.5KW, perhaps it's just as simple as all the warm air keeps going out the back door with the dog?

Or she could just be lying to me :-)

I contacted the company and got all the usual marketing BS, about being able to solve the world poverty crisis to curing gonorrhoea.

just asking around to see if anyone else is using this with similar results.

lstar337

long_pockets wrote: »

No I have no NSH, just know a few people with them, was just interested to know about alternatives and also intrigued by the Mother-in-law's use of a small radiant panel heater.

Ah OK. So what heating do you have?

It might be that we can help with that. Probably best off in another thread though.

long_pockets wrote: »

I'm an engineer so logic always has to prevail, I just can't get my head around why 160w gives her the same comfort level as 1.5KW, perhaps it's just as simple as all the warm air keeps going out the back door with the dog?

Radiant heat pointing at you will always feel warm, I have no problem with that. How it effects the rest of the house, not so easy to explain. Without wanting to discredit the MIL, it could just be that she thinks it is making a difference therefore she feels it. Kind of a placebo effect.

She is only supplementing another heat source, if the 160W panel was the only form of heating I think she may feel differently towards it. Your MIL has a hard task, heating a space where doors are routinely opened for dogs will always be problematic. Use of an IR heater is probably the best solution for her.

long_pockets wrote: »

just asking around to see if anyone else is using this with similar results.

Always a good idea. :D

long_pockets

many thanks for your comments and information istar337, can I assume you are in the heating business?