A Cautionary Tale

GeorgiaF_2

Hi All

I wanted to tell you all a quick cautionary tale from someone who has recently fallen foul of their own naivety when it comes to making a quick "buck"....please don't "Tl;dr" me either, as i'm trying to help here!

I lost my job earlier this year and have been slowly getting in to a worse financial position, and really needed to make some quick money to help me out, especially with xmas coming up, and a friend suggest it was "easy money" to get mobile phone contract with a fancy new phone and just sell it on ebay or through a cash converters type shop and just ignore the bills or claim it was a fraud as the operators spend very little time actually confirming this and just wipe the debt.....it sounded too good to be true, but i was desperate and so gave it a go....

I know already most of you have just face palmed at this...but i was desperate like i say, and that new 4G company looked to be desperate for new customers on their new tarriffs offering the newest phones for virtually nothing upfront, so i applied for a brand new 32GB iPhone 5. Not only was i accepted, but i was offered 2 of them! I couldn't beleive my luck, so took them both. I really wanted to keep one of them as the phone looked great, and i've always wanted an iphone, but i also saw them going for £400 / £500 on ebay so stuck them both on there and sold them for just over £1,000 in total!! I was over the moon as this really REALLY was a lot of cash for me right now.

This is where the trouble started. Within days of sending the phones to the buyers, they contacted me with furious emails about not being able to use the phones, and they'd been advised by some company or other that they had been blacklisted. They wanted their money back (which i'd already used to clear down some of my cred card debt) and wanted to return the phones. I tried to tell them there must have been a mistake as i'd never reported them stolen or anything, but they wouldn't listen and ended up taking a case out with ebay. Now ebay are telling me to pay the money back or they will close my account (i use ebay LOADS to make money here and there selling old stuff!).

I eventually ended up applying for a loan to try and pay the money back, which was refused. When i queried why, they could only advise i got a copy of my credit file, which i did (using MSE "see your credit file for free!" technique) and saw to my horror the phone company have put a fraud alert on my credit file!!!! A CIFAS 6 or something, which google (and a few posts on these forums) suggests relates to "first party fraud".

I am really, really struggling to know how to deal with this currently, and would really appreciate any help or advice with this if anyone managed to read this whole tale of woe....:(:(:(

MikeWhite

GeorgiaF wrote: »

op and just ignore the bills or claim it was a fraud

Did you claim the handsets were ordered fraudulently? That would almost certainly lead to the network blocking them.
Mike

Silk

So let me get this straight.

You bought 2 iphones on contract with no intention of paying for them and sold them on ebay

The networks blocked them and marked your files accordingly and not only are the networks chasing you the buyers are too.

I don't see what the problem is here

macman

So what exactly did you think was going to happen to the phones when you stopped paying the contract fees?
You were quite within your rights to sell the handsets, but the networks are within their right to IMEI block it once you stop paying the contract fees-and to default your credit file after you ignored their requests for payment.
ebay will justifiably terminate your account if you don't refund the buyers.
Your friend is an idiot, don't take any other 'useful' advice from him.

lavandergirl_2

CIFAS Categories Explained
0 Protective Registration -- Recorded at the request of the person named.
1 False Identity Fraud -- Use of a false name with an address.
2 Victim of Impersonation -- Use, by another person, of this name and/or address.
3 Application Fraud (Facility Granted) -- Use of name reasonably believed to be genuine, but with one or more material falsehoods in personal details or other relevant information -; the facility was granted.
4 Application Fraud (Facility Refused) -- Use of a name reasonably believed to be genuine, but with one or more material falsehoods in personal details or other relevant information -; the facility was refused.
5 Conversion -- Conversion (disposal or sale) of goods (to which the hirer/buyer does not have title) under a hire purchase, conditional sale, contract hire, leasing or rental agreement.
6 First Party Fraud -- Opening an account or other facility for a fraudulent purpose, or the fraudulent misuse of an account or facility.
7 Aiding & Abetting -- Aiding, abetting or assisting, or conspiring with, another or others to fraudulently procure credit, or other facilities, or hire products or services.
8 Insurance Claims Fraud -- The making of a claim(s) under one or more insurance policy (ies) with one or more material falsehoods or by presenting a false or forged document.

GeorgiaF_2

Hi Mike - i definately hadn't reported them as fraud, i thought if i just didn't pay they'd send me a few threatening letters but would ultimately just give up if i ignored them....that's what I thought would happen anyway....i've got a couple of "late" payments on my credit file already so didn't think this would really have much impact

I certainly didn't expect to be called a fraudster....can they really claim i had no intention to pay!? Surely if i lost my job and the means of paying that is something i can argue?

I'm not feeling a whole lot of sympathy from these responses....i guess i deserve that....but surely there must be something i can do?

macman

But you are a fraudster, as you've explained in detail in your first post. You've defrauded your ebay buyers.
You cannot seriously expect anyone to believe that you thought the phones would not be blocked once you defaulted on payment?
And no, losing your job gives you no grounds whatsoever for defaulting. The only valid ways to void your contract without penalty are bankruptcy or death. Change or loss of employment does not count-you agreed a contract for x months, and that is what you are held to.
All you can do is pay your debts and eventually clear your credit file.

Silk

GeorgiaF wrote: »

I'm not feeling a whole lot of sympathy from these responses....i guess i deserve that....but surely there must be something i can do?

I don't see the problem here .....whats that saying about if you do the crime prepare to do the time ???

If you robbed a bank and got caught you would have a criminal record ...you have done fraud and have been marked accordingly.

Fully understand you are now regretting it but thats what the systems for ...discovering the fraudsters and marking their cards

GeorgiaF_2

macman, i was told that handsets could only be blocked if stolen. Non payment didn't fall in to the catagory apparently, my now ex-friend told me something about the phones being legally mine once i'd signed the contract, so they couldn't blacklist them unless reported stolen

I take exception to your assumption that i defrauded the ebay buyers, i had no intention of selling them phones that would be blacklisted as i had no idea that would happen. Fair enough i've not done right by the mobile company, but i figured they could afford it.

Silk

GeorgiaF wrote: »

macman, i was told that handsets could only be blocked if stolen. Non payment didn't fall in to the catagory apparently, my now ex-friend told me something about the phones being legally mine once i'd signed the contract, so they couldn't blacklist them unless reported stolen

You missed the point and didn't think it through.

The phones were "stolen" ...you stole them from the supplier and sold them on

macman

GeorgiaF wrote: »

macman, i was told that handsets could only be blocked if stolen. Non payment didn't fall in to the catagory apparently, my now ex-friend told me something about the phones being legally mine once i'd signed the contract, so they couldn't blacklist them unless reported stolen

I take exception to your assumption that i defrauded the ebay buyers, i had no intention of selling them phones that would be blacklisted as i had no idea that would happen. Fair enough i've not done right by the mobile company, but i figured they could afford it.

So you believed that if you just stopped paying for the contract, the phones would continue to work? If that were so, the networks would be bankrupt.
Of course you have defrauded them, you sold them phones that are now worthless. Even if unknowingly, (which I find hard to credit), you still owe them their money back.
Silk, the OP did not steal the handsets, they were legally his to sell on, or do as he wished with, from day one of the contract. The issue is breach of contract with the network and breach of contract with his ebay buyers. Both civil matters.