Ford TDCI Hell - require advice

giggsy13

I never thought for a second I would be in this position with a Diesel. Everything I am reading about modern Diesels seem to suggest they are now both overly complex (hence huge problems) and also a false economy as the extra Delta paid in upfront purchase costs will take years to payback.

In short I am switching back to 'reliable' petrol!

Graham_Devon

Yer, I have done that, and am now driving a petrol. Miss the way diesels drive after have 7 on the trott, but the last 2 were minefields.

Quite reassuring now that driving a NA petrol, the biggest cost is likely to be a new engine..... at around £600 for a recon unit. I paid more for that for the DMF and clutch to be done on the 307, and then lost it all when I decided to get rid due to the turbo and EGR problems!

There are some diesels I'd still have, but they are all a little old in age now, bar the Ford 1.8 diesel unit, which has also now been phased out in favour of new fangled timebombs.

SLITHER99

giggsy13 wrote: »

I have offered to pay for the turbo and labour by letter which should be around £1,300. I will wait till Wed for the rebuke and then bite the bullet.

Tempted to just go tomorrow but ill wait couple if days.

Just to annoy the service manager a little I've just emailed all my correspondence to 10 high ranking people in Ford inc CEO, CFO and the regional UK manager. It was fairly straight forward to get names online and via LinkedIn.

Like I said I will go down but I will make sure I've made my point to this dealership.

Hahaha. Yep. I have plenty clients of mine (not car related) who think adding in the CEO, md, various heads will somehow mean everything gets dropped for them. Sadly, it's usually the opposite that happens. I had the same with some of the car companies I worked for.

SLITHER99

giggsy13 wrote: »

I never thought for a second I would be in this position with a Diesel. Everything I am reading about modern Diesels seem to suggest they are now both overly complex (hence huge problems) and also a false economy as the extra Delta paid in upfront purchase costs will take years to payback.

In short I am switching back to 'reliable' petrol!

My family come from a long line of diesel fitters from the agricultural world. My uncles both specialise in heavy plant.

Not that the knowledge has genetically passed to me, but it's quite a big deal when even they drive Petrol cars, albeit diesel trucks.

Still. It's entertaining to get them on the subject of modern diesel engined cars and how the designers just haven't thought it through. Apparently, this whole start stop tech is just a ticking time bomb waiting to happen too! Kinda makes sense, really.

But that said, my Mondeo was a 2.0l petrol. And that was a sour bag of vomit!

giggsy13

SLITHER99 wrote: »

Hahaha. Yep. I have plenty clients of mine (not car related) who think adding in the CEO, md, various heads will somehow mean everything gets dropped for them. Sadly, it's usually the opposite that happens. I had the same with some of the car companies I worked for.

Oh yeah I know it's all for self amusement now. I have already given the service manager my full & frank views to his face so we are way beyond being civil.

I am just going to be as difficult & problematic as possible just to wind the guy up. I'm not expecting anything Wednesday except a demand for £2,100. I will pay it & then drive the piece of !!!! to another Ford dealer and sell it. In between he will get annoying emails from me regularly with different requests. It may seem a bit childish but trust me he has treated me like a bit of dirt on his shoe. Totally and utterly nonchalant from day one. These people are not interested unless there is something in it for them ie profit & bonuses. He has not taken the customer perspective & it is wrong.

I don't think for one second the CEO of Ford gives a rats about my £2k problems. He has closing plants and huge losses to keep him up at night! But I am sure it will get the service managers back up so again. Job done

josefnewman

Hi,

The engine is 1.6HDI 16V, peugeot / citroen
Need supercare with oil replacement on time
best

steve-L

TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN reissue No.46/2008 11 August 2008
Subject/Concern: Loss of power; Failure of the turbocharger Model: Focus 2004.75 (07/2004–) Assembly Plant: Valencia
Assembly Plant: Saarlouis Engine: 1.6L Duratorq-TDCi (DV) Diesel C-MAX 2003.75 (06/2003–) Assembly Plant: Valencia Assembly Plant: Saarlouis Engine: 1.6L Duratorq-TDCi (DV) Diesel Markets: All Section: 303-04 Summary
Should a customer experiences a loss of power and by following the relevant workshop manual procedure on FordEtis you find a failed turbocharger as the root cause with clear damage to the turbocharger (turbine/compressor wheels damaged or turbo shaft broken), the following procedure needs to be carried out to prevent reoccurrence of the failure.
CAUTION: It is important to complete each step of this service instruction as directed. Failure to do so may result in misdiagnosis and failure to address the customers concern.
Parts Required Description FinisCode Quantity Turbocharger - 1.6L Duratorq-TDCi (DV) diesel (110 PS) 1479055 1 Oil supply tube - 1.6L Duratorq-TDCi (DV) diesel (110 PS) 1479839 1 Oil return line - 1.6L Duratorq-TDCi (DV) diesel (110 PS) 1483831 1 Turbocharger oil feed pipe banjo bolt with filter 1450265 2 Oil supply tube union copper washer 1232215 6 Oil filter 1359941 2
Oil filter gasket 1145944 1 Oil pick up tube (including oil pick up tube retaining bolts (3 off))
1483825 1 Seal vacuum pump 1355031 2 Catalytic converter to turbocharger clamp Exhaust gasket 1152194 - Gasket oil cooler and filter assembly Turbocharger outlet pipe (If Required) Remove, Check And Install Parts: Materials Name Specification Formula E Engine Oil SAE (5W-30) Silicone Sealer General Equipment Brake cleaner
1474828 2
1145946 1 1439410 1
WSS-M2C913-B
Several improvements have been implemented in production to prevent soot in the oil. Service Instruction
Removal 3. Remove the air cleaner outlet hose.
* Detach the air cleaner outlet hose.
* Disconnect the positive crankcase ventilation (PCV) hose quick release coupling.
4. Remove the brake vacuum pump. * Remove and discard the brake vacuum pump seals.
Vehicles with DPF only 6. Remove the cooling fan motor and shroud.
7. Remove the turbocharger. 8. Remove the oil cooler and filter assembly.
* Remove the oil filter 9. Remove the oil supply tube from the cylinder block.
* Discard the oil supply tube and oil supply tube union copper washers. 10. Remove the oil pick up tube.
Check the following removed parts for metallic particles/debris - Examples of failed parts
1. Check the following removed parts for metallic particles/debris.
1. Turbocharger oil feed pipe 1. Check the following removed parts for metallic particles/debris.
1. Turbocharger oil feed pipe banjo bolt with filter 2. Turbocharger oil return line (return line fully opened for clarification) 3. Oil cooler and filter assembly 4. Oil pick up tube 5. Oil filter 6. Brake vacuum pump
* If there are any residues of debris (metallic particles) inside the system (see examples of failed parts – please compare with yours), go to next step.
Install cleaned and new parts
1. Thoroughly clean the oil cooler and filter assembly at the corresponding engine side with brake cleaner and dry with compressed air.
2. Install the oil cooler and filter assembly with new gasket and oil filter * Torque: 10 Nm * Install a new oil return line to the oil cooler and filter assembly
3. Thoroughly clean the brake vacuum pump with brake cleaner, dry with compressed air and install new seals
Install a new oil pick up tube
* Thoroughly clean the oil pan with brake cleaner and dry with compressed air.
5. Remove the charge air cooler and drain off all the oil and metallic particles that remain inside.
6. Check the turbocharger outlet pipe for any damages.
7. Visually inspect the following parts for obvious signs of damage, air restriction or contamination:
* Air cleaner element
* Air cleaner outlet hose
* Air cleaner intake hose
* Thoroughly clean these parts if required. * Install a new turbocharger outlet hose
9. Install a new oil supply tube with a new lower banjo bolt with filter (see Parts Required).
* Thoroughly clean the upper banjo bolt before installation with brake cleaner and dry with compressed air.
* Install new oil supply tube union copper washers (see Parts Required). 10. NOTE: Do not install the oil return line to the turbocharger and the air cleaner outlet hose at this stage.
To install all remaning parts, reverse the removal procedure. 11. Fill the engine with engine oil.
Measure the volume of oil flow after the installation of the new parts
1. Install a longer oil return line (locally procured) to the turbocharger and feed into a suitable container (charge air cooler intake pipe removed for clarity).
* Install the air cleaner outlet hose.
* Start the engine and let running at idle. After 60 seconds switch off the engine and measure the volume of oil in the container. The quantity of oil collected in 60 seconds of uninterrupted flow should be higher than 0.3 liter.
CAUTION: Ensure that the engine does not run below min. of oil level. * Repeat the test 2 or 3 times to confirm the oil flow is correct. If the volume is NOT within specification call the Prior Approval
Hotline (depending on market) for further actions. Prior approval MUST be obtained before a further repair is done.
3. Drive the vehicle (30-40 km). Change the engine oil and filter again.

This is the relevant TSB I think.....
Hence why the price

MiserlyMartin

Graham_Devon wrote: »

I've had this issue on a 307 (same engine). They are absolutely hideous engines, as you have found. My turbo was replaced under warranty by a trader, reluctantly. However, it blew again 4,000 miles later. Basically, because they had only changed the turbo, NOT all the other parts. To be fair, your's is most likely sorted now (but this leaves other known issues).

I had to get shot in the end, ended up losing a lot of money, but not as much as yourself.

These engines were, and still are, sold on high MPG only. They have so many extra's bolted on they really are appauling. They are in Fords, Citreons, Peugeot's and some Volvos.

As for your complaint, I wouldn't even bother going down the "I was forced to go to Ford" as quite clearly you weren't, you simply took advice from another garage who didn't really want the job. You could have gone anywhere you liked and no one was forcing anything on you.

Doing the work without authorisation however is something you could go further on. They will probably record their calls, so it's worth going down that avenue if you are absolutely sure you didn't authorise the work.

After it's all sorted out, get rid ASAP. You are coming up to DMF and DPF failiure time too. (Another 2 grand).

And the lesson? Unless you are doing over say 16k miles a year, don't touch a diesel with a bargepole. Diesels were brilliant before Euro 4 came in, and became dire when Euro 5 came in. Euro 6....well, you could well need a mortgage to fix it. Let someone else who refuses to listen to anything but high MPG figures take it on. Diesels are now a dying breed for the normal consumer (IMHO), it's just going to take some years to catch on.

I've found this thread by accident. Is there an update to the story? Was the £2,100 bill settled? Any luck with cutting that service manager of this rogue dealership down to size?

This thread should be pinned!!! SO basically not only are 2005 Ford/PSA diesels lemon engines but any diesels after Euro 4 are unreliable expensive pieces of junk!! Graham? I drive a 2001 306 2.0Hdi, so far it has been good for 10 years of motoring - touch wood. This is the first I've heard of modern diesels being best avoided. I knew cars with DPF's were a waste of time but this is worse!

forgotmyname

The engines are fine. Count all the bad stories and then you realise this is a tiny percentage of the numbers sold.

And sometimes people are complaining about the same car. Seller flogs the faulty car to a buyer, Buyer then realises its £££ to fix or the cheap solutions dont work so they resell it and then it appears again and the new owner tries the cheap fixes. This goes on until someone buys it that knows what to look for and howto fix it or scraps it.

Ive heard of lots of people that have had the pumps go on your engine also.

If you sell 1 million of something with as many parts as a car your bound to get a couple that go wrong.

I remember reading something where there were testing a RollsRoyce and it broke down.
When they phoned up to tell them, They were told dont be silly our cars never break down.

Old cars are pot luck, My euro 4 Mondeo is running fine thanks. But with only 160,000 on the clock it should be.

Full service years and an oil change every 6 months as with all my cars.

addyboy1982

forgotmyname wrote: »

The engines are fine. Count all the bad stories and then you realise this is a tiny percentage of the numbers sold.

And sometimes people are complaining about the same car. Seller flogs the faulty car to a buyer, Buyer then realises its £££ to fix or the cheap solutions dont work so they resell it and then it appears again and the new owner tries the cheap fixes. This goes on until someone buys it that knows what to look for and howto fix it or scraps it.

Ive heard of lots of people that have had the pumps go on your engine also.

If you sell 1 million of something with as many parts as a car your bound to get a couple that go wrong.

I remember reading something where there were testing a RollsRoyce and it broke down.
When they phoned up to tell them, They were told dont be silly our cars never break down.

Old cars are pot luck, My euro 4 Mondeo is running fine thanks. But with only 160,000 on the clock it should be.

Full service years and an oil change every 6 months as with all my cars.

Couldn't agree more.

Preventative regular maintenance is the key. Our household has 2x diesels, 1 is a Vectra 1.9CDTI, well known for being pokey but woefully unreliable. It has suffered a broken alternator in nearly 4 years and 60k miles and that is it.

My Laguna (mk3 2.0dCI Euro4) has a dreaded DPF fitted, and touch wood in just over a year and 33k miles since purchase, it hasn't put a foot wrong. Possibly something to do with the engine being partly Nissan.

The Vectra is serviced annually even though it doesn't do enough miles, and the Laguna goes in every six months. Both have done considerably more than 100k.

Good luck with your Mondeo - if I were you I'd pay up, sell it, then wrangle about your shocking treatment by the garage afterwards.