Ford TDCI Hell - require advice

giggsy13

Hi all, a freind recommended I post here. I will try and keep this as brief as possible.....! Any advice would be greatly received.

In summary my Ford Diesel broke down about 4 weeks ago, I towed it to a local garage who said I needed turbo replacing - cost circa £1000. I authorised the week and got a phone call the nest day saying they could not complete the work as the Turbo manufacturer would not provide a warranty.

The upshot is Ford have issued a 'Technical Bulletin' which I still don't understand byt my reserach so far has concluded teh engine has a known issue which produces too much carbo after 50,000 miles and then can blow the Turbo. It is a widespread issue and hence aftermarket turbo manufacturers are noi longer providing a warranty for their turbos.

They may provide a warranty if all of the work on teh technical bulletin is completed and then a whole bunch of other stipulations. Alaos then if the Turbo blows again they will want to analyse it at a lab and if they find any Carbon then they will invalidate the warranty. In short the garage told me the warranty would not be worth paper it is written on and that essentially I would not have a warranty and that the turbo would likely blow again anyway.

They recommended I took directly to Ford. Obviously I am horrifed by this point as the car is only 5 years old (07 plate) so I had to incure £80 to tow it to nearest Ford garage as you only get one tow with AA. I spoke with their customer services who said they would give a 10% discount for whatever needs to be done, but were essentially not really interested.

The first call I got from Ford was from their service manager asking 'why I had dumped my car on his forecourt'. I had to explain it was booked in by ford customer services. So we spoke next and he said that the bulletin work would require up to 27 parts being changed and this would be a cost of £2100 which is a huge sum compared with original turbo quote. He said he would not know how much work was required until they 'took a look at car'.

After this I rang everyday for an update and was told it was 'still on teh ramp' and no one rang back. The next phone call i received was from the serivce manager saying they had changed all 27 parts and teh turbo and that I owed them £2100.

There is no way I would have authorised this work, I had already made personal decision that I would bite the bullet and get a new car as £2100 is well over 70% of its current value.

The service manager has been absolutely disgusting throughout the whole process. He has not once asked my question of what the bulletin actually is, his answer has been 'its a list of work we needed to complete'. That is it! I have asked numerous times why I could not get my car fixed at original garage, and I have incurred huge extra costs getting it to Ford.

All my reserach on the technical bulletin indicates that the work carried out does not even fix the problem, it is merely preventative maintenance and that it is just a matter of time before the Turbo blows again. So again I would not even feel comfortable driving teh car yet alone paying £2,100 for it.

The service manager is not interested, and nor is the manager of teh branch. They have said I can have my car back when I turn up and pay the invoice.

I am at a complete loss what to do. I didn't once give written or verbal authorisation for the work to be completed. Also, I do not believe I should have to pay for any work carried out due to a technical bulletin. The upshot is no other garage will touch my car, and turbo manufacturers will not provide a warranty.

I accept things go bang out of warranty and therefore will pay for a turb as originally quoted by local garage (lets ignore fact that it is the underlying problem with the Ford engine that causes the Turbo to blow). But NO WAY should I be forced to go to Ford as no one else will touch my car and then pay over a £1000 extra for incremental work before a Turbo is fitted.

This is all a horrendous nightmare, I have no car, am getting lifts to work and borrowing Dads BMW 525 when I can which is very expensive to run. The incidental costs I have incurred towing car, fuel etc are costing em a fortune (I have 30 minute each way drive to work each day). I ave a small family so it is causing massive inconvenience and Ford are aware of this and probably playing on the fact I am getting increasingly desperate to get my car back.

I am so desperate for a car I am close to just going up and paying them the £2,100 and taking it. I am afraid if I do this I will never see a panny again and essentially Ford will have won.

One further note the Ford dealer is a franchise and teh service manager went crazy when I mentioned teh 10% discount. he didnt know anything about it and said that 'Ford have no right to offer you a discount this is my dealership'. He then went into a rant about how he wouldnt make any profit on the job and was clearly trying to make me feel 'guilty' for even mentioning a discount.

he is a horrible person and also has the full backing of his boss.

If anyone has any advice or knowldge base about the Ford Diesel technical bulletin would be really really grateful.

thank you all

SLITHER99

I would go directly to Ford Customer Services and explain what is going on. If they authorised a 10% discount, they need to take it up with the dealership. This is because the dealership will still get their £2100, but 10% just comes from Ford and the rest from you.

Aside from this, the Mondeo Mk3 has so many technical and known issues, it's not even funny. I spent £5500 on a 4 year old petrol 2.0. I then paid nearly £7500 purely on keeping it running for the three years I owned, finally junking it after a "known issue" with the aircon compressor struck and was met with a £1800 bill to rectify it which, oddly enough, also wouldn't be warranted at all! A local indie quoted £1200 to do, but also wouldn't warranty it and also stated that they didn't want the job!

I would encourage you to google for some forums and check out the Honest John reviews. The car is a lemon. I hate to put it bluntly given your predicament, but it's the truth.

If it was me, I'd first argue with Ford CS, pay whatever the bill is and then get shot of it. Put it down to experience and move on. If you're reliant on a car, I'd urge you not to make it a Mk3 Mondeo - or even a Mk4 as they're proving to have a lot of "issues" too.

I bought an 8 year old Mercedes with 100k miles on the clock and it's not put a foot wrong in the 4 years I've owned it. Aside from regular servicing and 2 minor faults, all of which have cost me less than £1300 over the four years, it's still humming along at a smidge under 180k on the clock! AND, being a Mk1 Automatic A-Class, it's meant to be the most unreliable heap of all time, yes hasn't cost me nearly as much as that Mondeo!

giggsy13

hi thanks for reply, Yes had a good read on honest John and as you say the car is essentially a ticking time bomb.

What I am trying to figure out is given the fact that Ford have put out this technical bulletin and that I was forced to take the car to them do I have any recourse.

I didn't authorise for Ford to complete the work and they have just gone ahead and done it. As you say I want to get shot of it, but as cheap as possible. In my mind if Ford had turned around and said 'ok Mr Martin we are going to need to complete all of the bulletin work and its going to cost £2,100' then i would have said, ok lets tak a trade in.

I will not be comfortable selling it privately as that is not ethical. Therefore trade in is my ownly option.

I would rather not be in this position as I have 18 months financing left on teh car. I didnt expect to buy a Diesel and its a piece of junk at 60,000 miles I have had it serviced every year etc etc

waste of time and money really.

Nice story about Mercedes!! Horror story about Mondeo! I wont be ever buying a Ford again after this. Not because of teh technical fault, but because of how they have treated me.

So far Ford customer services havent helped at all, they said it is all down to the dealership how much they charge me and thats that, They dont want any further involvement......so thats a dead end it seems.

I have to focus (no pun) my efforts on legal recourse for them doing the work without my authorisation. I have sent them a letter offering to pay for the turbo and given them 7 days to reply per the sale of goods act. However all I am expecting is a letter on day 7 telling me to get stuffed and pay the invoice.....

not sure what I will do then!

forgotmyname

Is it the issue of the carbon causing the turbo vanes to stick?

This is an issue on lots of cars with variable vane turbo's. And doesnt cause the turbo to explode or fail in a big way.

The car usually detects the extra force required in operating it and throws up limp mode,
It just needs a clean not replacing.

Google Midland turbo in nottingham. Give them a call and ask their advice. They seem to have good feedback. Although i have never used them myself.
Few of the lads in the clubs have used them for standard and modified turbo's.

Sounds like they were just scaremongering and over reacting.

Drive a mondeo to the garage and say ive got a fault. See how quickly they jump to the conclusion your injectors are worn or the turbo has failed..

When all it needs it a clean. Under an hour to remove and 1/2 hour in the parts washer and 1 hour to refit. Your have a like new turbo.

giggsy13

hi no I think it is more complicated than that. The technical bulletin that Ford put out has over 3 pages of work and parts that need changing before a turbo can be fitted.

When my local garage tried to get a Turbo the aftermarket manufacturer refused to give a warranty. They also said if the garage followed the technical bulletin then they would provide one BUT I would have to have oil change four times a year and also if it failed they woould require for it to be sent to a lab. If they found it had been caused by teh technical bulletin fault then that would invalidate warranty!

So my garage said in a nutshell no warranty and that really i should see Ford. I spoke with 3 other garages who also didnt want to go near my car, It seems the trubo failure is now so widespread that turbo manufacturers are just refusing to give a warranty.

Also every mechanic I have spoken to is of the opinion that the car is screwed. That completing teh technical bulletin work will only legnthen the time before the Turbo fails again. It is a preventative measure not a cure.

I gather the problem is with teh design and manufacture of the engine. The bulletin affects all Diesel engines in focus 2007-2008 I believe. It is a peugeot engine and was part of their new design / shape etc.

I am not very teccie I am an accountant so all this knowledge base is from discussions and reserach online.

Upshot is Ford know their car is screwed and surely by virtue of fact i was forced to take it to them they should cover the TB work. It doesnt seem right that i should be forced to take a 5 year old car back to manufacturer direct, i should choose who i want.

Unfortunately no one will touch it!!!

SLITHER99

If it's any concellation, a lot of the French wagons have similar issues.

However, Ford CS need to provide you with guideance. If you're not getting help from who you're speaking to, you need to escalate it

If you're truly getting nowhere, I would pay the £2100 (under protest) to prevent storage fees from being incurred and take the matter to trading standards. Most CS in car companies deal with trading standards regularly and often know outcomes of such cases before they start arguing. I would also say that CS do pay attention to complaints on customer service and, for regularly offending franchises, will start having words with Dealer Principals.

motorguy

forgotmyname wrote: »

Is it the issue of the carbon causing the turbo vanes to stick?

This is an issue on lots of cars with variable vane turbo's. And doesnt cause the turbo to explode or fail in a big way.

The car usually detects the extra force required in operating it and throws up limp mode,
It just needs a clean not replacing.

Google Midland turbo in nottingham. Give them a call and ask their advice. They seem to have good feedback. Although i have never used them myself.
Few of the lads in the clubs have used them for standard and modified turbo's.

Sounds like they were just scaremongering and over reacting.

Drive a mondeo to the garage and say ive got a fault. See how quickly they jump to the conclusion your injectors are worn or the turbo has failed..

When all it needs it a clean. Under an hour to remove and 1/2 hour in the parts washer and 1 hour to refit. Your have a like new turbo.

This is actually a Peugeot engine fitted to this car, not a ford engine.

There is a known design fault with it, that Ford insist on correcting once the turbo blows - at the owners cost.

We've had several of these engines in various cars - an 06 Focus and it took around £2800 to get it going right - including a £2K bill from Ford for the same work. Also, an 05 307 with full history and just 57K miles took £1500 to get going right.

Bad bad engines. Real time bombs.

SLITHER99

pgilc1 wrote: »

This is actually a Peugeot engine fitted to this car, not a ford engine.

There is a known design fault with it, that Ford insist on correcting once the turbo blows - at the owners cost.

We've had several of these engines in various cars - an 06 Focus and it took around £2800 to get it going right - including a £2K bill from Ford for the same work. Also, an 05 307 with full history and just 57K miles took £1500 to get going right.

Bad bad engines. Real time bombs.

Well, I'll be a monkey's Uncle!

giggsy13

pgilc1 wrote: »

This is actually a Peugeot engine fitted to this car, not a ford engine.

There is a known design fault with it, that Ford insist on correcting once the turbo blows - at the owners cost.

We've had several of these engines in various cars - an 06 Focus and it took around £2800 to get it going right - including a £2K bill from Ford for the same work. Also, an 05 307 with full history and just 57K miles took £1500 to get going right.

Bad bad engines. Real time bombs.

Hi Paul, yes that is what my reserach has concluded. No local garage would touch my car and now aftermarket turbo manufacturers are actually refusing to provide a warranty.

Do you know if the work carried out under the technical bulletin actually fixes the issue or is it merely preventative maintenance? My research says the latter.

My real issue here is that Ford carried out this work without my authorisatiuon. Their service manager said they would 'need to take a look'. the next phone call i received was saying that they had fixed the car and had to change every single part listed in the technical bulletin.

IF they had told me this up front i would have said can I meet your sales team please and bit the bullet and got a new car. I do nt want to drive a car which has an underlying engineering fault yet alone pay £2100 to drive it.

I have told Ford I welcome them insitgating legal proceedings as I am not picking the car up under any circumstances. They have no evidence that i told them to complete the work, and look forward to them explaning to a judge why aftermarket Turbo manufactureres no longer proivde warranties for their turbos for Ford Diesel cars from my year.

Its an absolute joke, obviously Ford hedge their bets asthey know failure happens out of warranty so they just assume people will pay for the work to be completed.

This may have been the case a year ago, but now that turbo manufacturers are not providing warranties the floor boards are creaking just a little.

At the end of all this I may end up paying the money, but in the process I will have stopped a large number of people going anywhere near this dealership ever again and also raised awareness amongst other Ford Diesel owners. That cant be a bad thing right? :j

GolfBravo

Ford Focus 1.6 TDCI?

The carbon build up is caused by a faulty injector seal - this is a well known issue with the Peugeot Citroen Moteurs 1.6 HDi engine, where the injector seal fails and it leaks carbon around the injector inside the cylinder head. The carbon then circulates around the engine causing the blockage.

No idea why Ford bulletin would stipulate £2100 worth of modifications (well, except for the extra revenue) where it is simply necessary to keep an eye on injector seals (when servicing) and also make sure the engine oil is changed regularly using the gravity method (not oil pump).

I think to fix the engine properly the rocker cover needs removing and you need to inspect the injectors to check for any carbon buildup around them (usually it is injector no. 3).

giggsy13

hi yes it is 2007 TDCI. Do you know what a technical bulletin is exactly? Any idea why other local garages will nottouch my car?

also aftermarket turbo manufacturers no longer provde warranties for turbos for my car.

It is all so confusing!!!