MSE News: George Osborne to make £10bn welfare cuts

Ellejmorgan

PaulF81 wrote: »

You can get completely adequate counselling on the NHS, absolutely no need to have private. Medication as far as i am aware is free on the NHS as are prescriptions for those on benefits so again, why necessary? If its not on prescription, should you be taking it?

Too many people blame "illness" on what are pretty serious personality flaws. Again, people are happier to come up with a condition and blame the big bad state than look inwardly and ask what changes they need to privately make to get on in this life.

Rubbish, do you know how long the wait is for CBT ??

Some people who are seriously ill with mental health problems cannot wait for help..
Depression= personality flaws, heard it all now..

:rotfl:

PaulF81

Ellejmorgan wrote: »

no you are still confused, let me spell it out for you..


In work= can apply for DLA

Out of work= can apply for DLA


It's irrelevant if you work or not for claiming DLA

Yes, and I will spell it out for you again. The vast majority of those in receipt do not work. Personal choice for many I would suggest.
http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd5/rports2009-2010/rrep648.pdf

System

PaulF81 wrote: »

You can get completely adequate counselling on the NHS, absolutely no need to have private. Medication as far as i am aware is free on the NHS as are prescriptions for those on benefits so again, why necessary? If its not on prescription, should you be taking it?

Too many people blame "illness" on what are pretty serious personality flaws. Again, people are happier to come up with a condition and blame the big bad state than look inwardly and ask what changes they need to privately make to get on in this life.

No, you really can't. Have you ever sought help through the NHS? I required and EMERGENCY appointment with a psychiatrist following a suicide attmept. The soonest available was 2 MONTHS away. The waiting list for counselling was 18 MONTHS. I couldn't have regular counselling as my case was deemed too SEVERE and needed specialised sessions, which i wasn't allowed to have to over 2 years because i was too UNSTABLE to cope with it.

Prescriptions are not free to anyone on IB or CONTRIBUTIONS based ESA, they have to pay the full amount.

But hey bipolar is just a personality flaw right? Not that a qualified GP, CPN or Psychtirist would know anymore than an armchair doctor like yourself

Oh and just for some eduction:

What is depression?
Depression is a "whole-body" illness, involving your body, mood, and thoughts. It affects the way you eat and sleep, the way you feel about yourself, and the way you think about things. A depressive disorder is not the same as a passing blue mood. It is not a sign of personal weakness or a condition that can be willed or wished away. People with a depressive illness cannot merely "pull themselves together" and get better. Without treatment, symptoms can last for weeks, months, or years. Appropriate treatment, however, can help most people who suffer from depression.

The symptoms of depression may vary from person to person, and also depend on the severity of the depression. Depression causes changes in thinking, feeling, behavior, and physical well-being.

Depression is a word commonly used by people when describing feelings of unhappiness. However, depression becomes a recognisable illness when the degree of mood change is out of proportion to the circumstances and is unduly prolonged. It is also normal to feel elated at times of good fortune. Mania, however, is also a recognisable illness when the degree of elation (ie. elevated mood) is highly abnormal and frequently accompanied by overactivity and self important ideas.

Severe depressive disorder is sometimes called psychotic depression because like other psychoses it is a severe mental illness in which there can be delusions and/or hallucinations. In this type of severe depression there is most commonly no apparent cause for the profound state of misery. Because of this it is sometimes referred to as endogenous depression. In other words, the symptoms are caused by factors within the individual person and are unrelated to external stressors such as unsatisfactory life situations.

However there are people with endogenous depression who, though severely depressed, do not show psychotic features like hallucinations, etc.

When psychotic depression occurs in people who also have bouts of mania with intense feelings of well being and grossly overactive behaviour, the mental illness is called manic-depressive psychosis. Because of these swings in mood the illness may also be called bipolar affective disorder.

Another form of depression is usually associated with an obvious cause (eg. bereavement, redundancy, failed marriage etc) and this form is usually a much milder illness. It is referred to as mild depressive disorder or reactive depression or neurotic depression Usually this is a mild depressive disorder but in some people with reactive depression individual responses to major adverse life events can precipitate more severe forms of depressive illness.

Physical symptoms (eg poor appetite, weight loss, constipation, loss of sex drive) occur to a varying extent in mild depressive disorder, but are commonly much less severe than in people with severe depressive disorder, and care and mobility needs are not usually present.

Post natal depression is a disorder which affects women shortly after childbirth. In the great majority of cases this is a mild condition (commonly called "the baby blues") which resolves spontaneously within a few days. A few women, however, develop a severe psychotic depression which may last several weeks and require hospital treatment.

This section is not concerned with feelings of sadness or elation as normal experiences but with those mental illnesses in which the single most important feature is disturbance of mood. Sometimes, even in medical reports from general practitioners the term "depression" is used rather loosely to describe states of unhappiness rather than the recognisable mental disorder.

Clinical Features:
Severe Depressive Disorder:

Each year around 100 per 100,000 men and at least three times as many women, develop severe depressive disorder. The mood is one of misery. It does not improve substantially in circumstances where ordinary feelings of sadness would be alleviated. However in some people with this illness the mood is usually worse in the morning and tends to improve somewhat later in the day. Pessimistic thoughts are also present. Feelings of hopelessness may occur with self-blame about minor matters. Slowness of thought may also be evident.
Lack of interest or enjoyment is common and leads to withdrawal from social activities. Reduced energy is characteristic with feelings of profound lethargy so that normal daily tasks are either not attempted or left unfinished.
Biological or physical symptoms are present. They include physical inertia, sleep disturbance, loss of appetite, loss of weight, constipation, and amenorrhoea in women of child-bearing age (absence of menstrual periods). Complaints about physical symptoms are common, sometimes with hypochondriasis (ie morbid anxiety about health). Suicidal thoughts may also occur.
In addition there may be delusions and hallucinations. These are usually centred around feelings of worthlessness
Of all the severe mental illnesses, depression is the one most likely to respond to current medical treatment. The pattern of the depressive illness in the majority of cases is usually of recurrent episodes lasting several weeks or months interspersed with longer periods of normal mood. Some people experience only one episode and some are more or less continuously depressed for several years.
behaviour may be uninhibited. Women sometimes neglect precautions against pregnancy.
Expansive ideas of self-importance occur which at their extreme may be grandiose delusions. For example, the person may believe that he is a religious prophet or a world renowned expert on some matter. Persecution delusions may also be present. However the delusions are not long-lasting and usually disappear or change in content within days.
In bipolar affective disorder or manic-depressive psychosis mania and depression may follow each other in a sequence of often rapid changes. Also included in this group are people with severe depressive disorder who may have had only one episode of mania. Moreover most people with mania eventually develop a depressive disorder. In any one year the incidence of bipolar affective disorders is 10-15 per 100,000 for men, and up to twice this rate for women.
Possible Care Needs
Suicide and attempted suicide are part of the pattern of some cases of severe depressive disorder. However fleeting thoughts of suicide are common in people with many mental health problems. In untreated severe depression, the only factor preventing suicide may be the associated apathy and physical inertia. The risk of suicide is therefore greatest in the early stages of treatment, when such symptoms begin to improve before there is any significant change in the overall mental state. Risk of self harm is also greater when moods swing from mania to depression or vice-versa. In these situations the person is likely to be hospitalised to guard against any risk. Only continuous supervision is likely to thwart serious suicide attempts in those at risk, and this is not practical in the home situation.
In those people with severe depressive disorder who show self-neglect there may be a need for care to maintain nutrition and cleanliness and to conduct essential business and communication. It must be remembered, however, that the number of depressive episodes of this severity are usually of fairly short duration, counted in weeks rather than months. In very severe cases where the person remains motionless and mute hospitalisation is invariable.
In a great number of people with severe depressive disorder the onset of the depressed mood is not so sudden that it demands continual supervision or watching-over at night. In people with mania who have grossly abnormal overactive and disturbed behaviour there may be a need for supervision and watching-over. Once recognised, however, treatment is instituted promptly, frequently in hospital, and in the very great majority within a few weeks there is a response to treatment.
When depression either accompanies or is a symptom of other co-existing disorders, such as alcoholism or substance abuse or physical disability other care needs may be present.
Mobility Considerations
Agoraphobia is a not uncommon feature of depression; it usually responds to antidepressant medication. Physical inertia and apathy may result in the carer needing to encourage the severely depressed person to get out and about. This, in itself, constitutes neither guidance nor supervision. The evidence will have to be scrutinized in the individual case to determine whether there is a need for guidance or supervision outdoors. It is unlikely however that features of this severity will last for more than a few weeks at any one time.
Apart from the rare occurrence of depressive stupor (motionless and mute) in very severely depressed people, neither the depressive disorder nor mania affects the ability to walk. Persons with depressive stupor will be hospitalised and respond to treatment within a period of weeks. However, many suffer also suffer from anxiety and need someone to accompany them out of doors on unfamiliar routes.Duration of Needs
In the great number of cases any evident care needs may only be for a limited period which is unlikely to exceed several months during any one episode.
Further Evidence
In all cases of severe depressive illness or bipolar affective disorders it is highly probable that a consultant psychiatrist will have been involved in the management and treatment of the individual. Indeed the absence of any documented history of a psychiatric consultation should raise doubts about the nature and/or severity of the given diagnosis.
Hospital factual reports should be obtained. Other sources of information will be community psychiatric nurses, general practitioners and mental health social workers.
In those instances where it appears the claim pack has been inadequately or inappropriately completed by someone described as having a mental illness of the types described here, it would be helpful if a report were obtained from an examining medical practitioner. (EMP)

Cerisa

Paul - Skype does not help when you are out and about. Hence the term 'mobile'.

Prescriptions are not free.

I work full time. I am on a low wage. I get absolutely no government help at all. I am not personally losing out due to these cuts.

I just have some empathy for my fellow human beings.

Ellejmorgan

PaulF81 wrote: »

Yes, and I will spell it out for you again. The vast majority of those in receipt do not work. Personal choice for many I would suggest.

Maybe cos they are sick, have you thought of that ??

System

*must not feed the troll* *must not feed the troll*

PaulF81

Ellejmorgan wrote: »

Rubbish, do you know how long the wait is for CBT ??

Some people who are seriously ill with mental health problems cannot wait for help..
Depression= personality flaws, heard it all now..

:rotfl:

Six months when I had to wait.

I didn't say depression was a personality flaw. If you choose to let it ruin your life it will. Instead, you can try and beat the !!!!er, put it to one side and get on as best you can. Your work colleagues will admire you for it, the little victories you have in getting on with life are worth a million counselling sessions.

As for the other puerile comments, I can't stand the daily mail and I officially value immigrants well above the over entitled indigenous population who seem to think they are entitled to a free ride, despite there being no money to pay for it (apart from that being stolen from later generations through deficit spending).

IF THERE IS NO MONEY TO PAY FOR IT YOU CAN'T HAVE IT, IT REALLY IS AS SIMPLE AS THAT!

Compassion runs a lot deeper than giving cash out emotionlessly to people who quite frankly don't deserve it. I am not talking about dla here for those needing it, but the benefits they are looking to cut and the large numb who are fraudulently claiming dla. Then again, socialism has done a wonderous thing of ensuring we don't know our next door neighbour or our community, replacing it with "society" which sees money as the cure to all our ills.

How valuable is local friendship and help from someone you don't know, as opposed to a cash handout for the state?
Problem is, people have been dumbed down far too much to realise it, and the vast majority don't have the IQ To realise it either. Ho hum. One of the main reasons the country is going to pot.

Doesn't avoid the point that the money ran out a long time ago now and we are living off our grand kids credit cards to pay for our"problems". Some of you may be content with this, but I certainly am not.

Ellejmorgan

xXMessedUpXx wrote: »

No, you really can't. Have you ever sought help through the NHS? I required and EMERGENCY appointment with a psychiatrist following a suicide attmept. The soonest available was 2 MONTHS away. The waiting list for counselling was 18 MONTHS. I couldn't have regular counselling as my case was deemed too SEVERE and needed specialised sessions, which i wasn't allowed to have to over 2 years because i was too UNSTABLE to cope with it.

Prescriptions are not free to anyone on IB or CONTRIBUTIONS based ESA, they have to pay the full amount.

But hey bipolar is just a personality flaw right? Not that a qualified GP, CPN or Psychtirist would know anymore than an armchair doctor like yourself

Oh and just for some eduction:

He has no idea,
I do, should have seen me after I lost my daughter, I had to attend the hospital everyday, I remember that feeling of not being able to climb that ladder, I remember waking up feeling scared, then the not sleeping, the nightmares, anxiety,
I wanted out, I didn't care..
If I ate it wouldn't stay down, I felt so bad..
No cpn could help, had so many professionals try to help, no one could..
Took 7 years to get better..

Ellejmorgan

PaulF81 wrote: »

Six months when I had to wait.

I didn't say depression was a personality flaw.

As for the other puerile comments, I can't stand the daily mail and I officially value immigrants well above the over entitled indigenous population who seem to think they are entitled to a free ride, despite there being no money to pay for it (apart from that being stolen from later generations through deficit spending).

IF THERE IS NO MONEY TO PAY FOR IT YOU CAN'T HAVE IT, IT REALLY IS AS SIMPLE AS THAT!

Backtracking now, yes you did you said 'illness' and the conversation was regarding depression..

If you managed to wait six months for help, you weren't that ill, which is why the poster stated she pays for therapy from DLA, she can't wait 6 months for help..

PaulF81

Ellejmorgan wrote: »

Maybe cos they are sick, have you thought of that ??

9% work. Do we really have that many sick people in the uk? Me thinks the lady doth protest too much.