MSE News: George Osborne to make £10bn welfare cuts

KxMx

Classic sign of a troll:
Spill their hatred for many pages
Make a token remark about not meaning the genuinely sick
Resume the hatred.

poppasmurf_bewdley

Cerisa wrote: »

Mara 69 - the reason 'everyone' has a horror story about ATOS is because horror stories are so frequent.

32 people a WEEK die after being found fit for work.

A woman with autism, heart problems and the mind of a ten year old was found fit for work. Despite ATOS apologising, she will be assessed again in 2 years time, at a cost to the taxpayer.

What is the point of re-assessing this woman? Her condition will not improve. I'd much rather fund her comfort and the help her working mother needs than pay ATOS to poke and prod at a woman who has serious issues that sadly, aren't likely to get better.

How many people in work die every week?

People die - whether they are in work or on benefits. It's called nature. Many people die because of their work - stress causes heart attacks, strokes, etc. I had a heart attack on Easter Monday this year so I know what it is like. I'm fortunate that I was able to take early retirement when I was 60 (I'm 64 now), but if I'd have still been working I'd have been back at my job now, just like I'm doing everything else I did prior to my attack. But I suppose I could sit around and feel sorry for myself, and expect everyone to do things for me instead!

Or are you suggesting someone shouldn't find a job because they might die one day?

Marisco

I am in favour of limiting ALL child related benefits to 2 kids. But of course this cannot be retrospective, you'd have to choose a date, and say 10 months from xx xx 2013 (or whenever) all child benefits will not be paid for any over 2 kids. That way everyone knows the score, and if anyone wants more children, then they know that they'll have to pay for them from what they already get.

I think the same should apply to HB, that from xx xx 2013, only a shared rate will be paid to under 35's. I don't think it's fair to spring it on people who might have been living in their own place (on their own) for years. What about the 32 year old who has been working since say, 20, then lose their jobs, and cannot find one straight away, or not one that pays enough to pay the rent? Should they have to move into shared accommodation?

It's like most Tory policies, appeals to certain sections of society, but not very well thought out. They never seem to "allow" for the law of unintended consequences!

Cerisa

poppasmurf_bewdley

This is from the DWP's own figures.

Table 3: Claimants leaving ESA between January and November 2011 with a recorded date of death, Great Britain.

Assessment not complete : 2,200
Work Related Activity Group : 1,300
Support Group : 7,100
Total : 10,600

As 380,000 people left ESA in 2011, this is a death rate of 2% - compared to a general population death rate of just 0.7%.

“The total number of deaths in England in Wales in 2011 was 484,000"(Actuaries.org)

"UK Population 62,641,000 - 2011 (world bank?

princessdon

The difference is that ATOS are assessing seriously ill people as fit to work who then die. It illustrates how incompetent they are

And ATOS have assessed people as seriously ill who haven't died. Don't know what the correllation is there other than drama.

End of the day - ATOS don't say your life expectency, they don't say how fit or ill you are, they judge you against a set of criteria. If you meet that criteria then all good.

The "system and the criteria" are wrong - there are some human error in this too (make no doubt they get it wrong), but people who work die every day too. If ATOS had refused them and their medical professional believed their death was imminent (IE they had letters saying they are terminal within 6 months) and ATOS found fit - it's an outrage.

My GM has a terminal disease - but I hope she is around for the next 10 years, if she was younger, it would not exclude her from work. (although her none terminal illnesses would).

robpw2

anyone watched todays JK show ... there were two segments with waste of space dads wanting dna tests to see if baby was theres and waste of space mums who really couldnt care less about anyone but themselves and none of them had jobs ... jk nearly self combusted he was getting that angry but these are the people we need to sort out because their kids will assume its ok to be like mum and dad if we don't do something soon

lukieboy96

I am really fed up with people saying 'snap out of it.' Stop judging people. I have depression and a personality disorder and i am trying to sort myself out. I want to go back to work at some point but have been advised not to. I am a single parent and worked until i had a breakdown. I have paid taxes like everyone else. I do not sponge of the state but need help at the moment. Yes, there are people who have no intention of ever working. Don't judge us all the same please. My son has had to put up with friends judging me and asking how he can get presents. I have told him to tell them it is none of their business. He passed all exams and is doing A levels and is currently in care.

Cerisa

Princess, that happens all the time - people who've had multiple heart attacks, people with terminal lung cancer etc.

I'm not saying terminally ill people should be automatically excluded from work.

I'm saying that if someone is seriously ill, I'd rather make their last months / years comfortable than harass them with incompetent and spurious tests designed to generate profit for unscrupulous companies.

The other issue is - in a bad economy where there aren't enough jobs, why would an employer hire a person with health issues? Or force someone to stay in work when they are seriously ill?

If someone came to me, and said, "Hey, I've had several heart attacks but i'm not eligible for benefits because apparently i'm a lazy scrounger."

I'd feel *guilty* about hiring them - because I'd be actively supporting a barbaric policy AND I'd be hastening their death!

MUMZ2BEE

mumcoll wrote: »

I know of someone who has six kids by several men, has never worked. She openly brags about 'loving my free time'. Has Sky, internet etc., smokes AND has a working partner, that she doesn't admit to of course.

I have reported her but nothing has changed.

I too know of a woman who is claiming income support, and gets full housing and council tax benefit, and has 2 children.

I have reported her to benefit fraud on 4 occassions now as she has a partner who works full time living with her rent free!!

Benefit Fraud are a joke as they haven't done nothing about her!!

princessdon

@ Cerisa

Being Terminal (within 6 months) is an automatic right to the support group is it not?

If so then 1 of 2 things are happening

a) A GP/DR states they are terimal, death is expected within 6 months and ATOS ignore this. That is incomprehensible, abhorrent and disgusting.

b) A GP states they are not well - at risk of premature death - and ATOS find them fit for work. That is correct IF they don't meet the other descriptiors.

My father has had two Heart Attacks, a Quad Bypass, a pacemaker and is capable of work. Having heart problems does not preclude you from work. My Father cycled 200 miles a day over the weekend on a cycle ride, hardly ill is he? There isn't 1 cap fit's all (that is why I am against the current sytem) - people with similar problems to dad can't work.