Just had a crash, who's fault is it? Need advice please

demonted

Jamie_Carter

demonted wrote: »

It's seems the admission of driving a quick as really got to some!
It's lowered too with big alloy wheels and huge exhaust !

I have full understanding of the highway code and the use of and how to negotiate a roundabout.

The second lane on the first exit is for vehicle joining the roundabout at the approach road prior to the one shown in photo and not so vehicles can join the roundabout and exit side by side.
As any vehicles entering the roundabout at the approach road in the photo can only do so when clear, so their should be no danger of impact as vehicle intending to take their second exit will be in the second lane of the OP's first exit.

After all, you all state, if motorist intend to use the first exit of the roundabout to leave, then vehicles should be in and remain in the first lane, if this so, why would a vehicle be in the second lane when intending to take the first exit.

It certainly not me who needs to read the highway code.

Your being telling me you can't enter a box junction next !

No we didn't all state that. In fact the photo showed that the road markings allowed you to use both the 1st and 2nd lanes to take the first exit in this particular case. Although this is not the norm.

What you got very wrong was saying that the driving instructor was right by being in the first lane to turn right.

Jamie_Carter

demonted wrote: »

Where does this show cars using the 1st lane to turn right??

Tilt

demonted wrote: »

This does not represent the island anyway... it only has 2 lanes going round it. On a 3 lane round-a-bout (motorway junction for example), cars in lane 2 (middle) can use lane 2 of the exit slip road ths allowing 2 cars to exit side by side.

https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=5+Ways,+hagley+road+Birmingham&hl=en&ll=52.472482,-1.918488&spn=0.035814,0.090895&sll=52.520791,-1.843579&sspn=0.008944,0.022724&hq=5+Ways,&hnear=Hagley+Rd,+Birmingham,+United+Kingdom&t=m&z=14&layer=c&cbll=52.472513,-1.918673&panoid=LegyzZ6aSbjiNhaX9675Kg&cbp=12,307.39,,0,0.85

Note the centre line markings in this image of said round-a-bout. You can clearly see that lane one exits at that point (altthough there are road works present there) with an option for a car in lane 2 to to take the same exit. If the car in lane one continued passed the exit then a potential collision would occur. Note also the 'spiral' effect with lane 3 re commencing just prior to the exit allowing traffic to taper off while staying in their respective lanes. But for this to work, any traffic in lane 1 should take the next exit. End of argument.

demonted

Jamie_Carter wrote: »

Where does this show cars using the 1st lane to turn right??

I never said the driving instructor could remain in the first lane and turn right.

I said maybe the driving instructor was indicating right to show their intention as NOT to exit at the first exit but to exit at the second exit.

I said the driving instructor can remain in the first lane and exit at the second exit.

I said legally, the driving instructor has done nothing wrong by remaining in the first lane with the intention to exit at the second exit.

However, as it must be clear to do so when entering the roundabout, the driving instructor can enter the roundabout via the first lane and indicate to change into the appropriate lane whilst on the roundabout (unless road markings prohibit this) especially on a large roundabout, such as the one in question.
As any vehicles approaching from the rear should not surmise the intentions of the driver ahead, nor overtake but allow the vehicle ahead to complete their manoeuvre.

As this prevents situations such as the one the OP has found himself in.

brat

In terms of criminal liability, the two factors to consider are as follows

Firstly, has a driver's aggression (bad attitude) caused this collision? It may be that the OP has been aggressive by trying to accelerate past the driving instructor to get off in lane two. That type of driving will always trump another drivers inadvertent omission in terms of culpability and liability, although it often doesn't get punished to that degree, due to lack of evidence.

Secondly, has the collision been caused by a driver omission? Either party could be guilty of this, by failing to recognise an expected hazard and deal with it.

If the driving instructor came on in lane one from the previous entry, she may be completely unaware that she would be immediately compelled to change lane to get past the first exit. There is a requirement on both parties to accommodate that requirement. If the driver instructor was on the roundabout indicating to go round, and was ahead of the OP when doing so, then the OP should take the hit. He should accommodate her necessary movement round the roundabout from the awkward position that she innocently found herself in. I think this is probably what happened. The OP either inadvertently or aggressively moved past her to get off in lane two, and fluffed the manoeuvre by not getting past her, or by thinking that by accelerating to be alongside her, he was in the dominating position.
Whether the driving instructor will be able to evidence this is another matter.
For her part, the driving instructor should have been aware that her requirement to cross a lane may cause a problem. She should accommodate the movement of those already established in the roundabout, but would be much less culpable if that driver has tried to mix her a bottle by accelerating to put themselves in an awkward and unexpected position.

patman99

Has anyone noticed that the OP has stopped posting on here?.
Anyway, reminds me of an accident I had as a mere 21 - year old whilst returning from a hospital appointment. Came across a line of parked cars outside a shop, as there were vehicles approaching in the opposite direction so had to stop and wait before proceeding.
The car 2nd from last in the row of parked vehicles pulled-out into the side of my car smashing-in the wing, door and rear 3/4 panel. Women driver blames me (young driver in Toyota Celica 2.0ST) and we exchange details.
Evening comes and her husband phones-up. His exact words were "I've heard her side of the story, now I want to know the truth". Absolutley priceless.

demonted

There was no reason for the driving instructor to feel compelled to change lanes, the layout of the road gives the option to remain in the first lane and take the second exit.

The second lane on the exit road is for vehicles which have joined the roundabout at the junction prior to the OP and wishing to exit at their second exit (the first exit to the OP)

OP's stopped posting as its probably beyond him and he' s adamant the driving instructor collided with his car rather than he crossed driving instructors path while assuming the instructor was taking the first exit.

Another point, although the image I posted, taken from the Highway Code, depicts only a two lane roundabout, the same principles apply, regardless of how many lanes, unless road marking and or roads sign state otherwises.

TrickyWicky

patman99 wrote: »

His exact words were "I've heard her side of the story, now I want to know the truth". Absolutley priceless.

:rotfl: :T

demonted

If the driving instructor entered the roundabout when not clear to do so, any approaching vehicle would have no choice but reduce speed to accommodate such a manoeuvre, thus be aware of that vehicle. The overtaking of the driving instructors vehicle in such circumstances, which results in a collision by crossing the driving instructors path, the driver of the vehicle overtaking is at fault, regardless of who entered the roundabout first.

However, the OP states he entered the roundabout from the second lane of the approach road, side by side with the drving instructors vehicle which occupied the first lane, although the OP had every intention of leaving at the first exit.

The driving instructor may of attempted to warn the OP of their intention to leave at the second exit by indicating right.