Dilemma re Mum and niece

Tiglath

I've taken on board what everyone's said - I thought about it a lot during the night, and have caught up on new posts this morning. You're right and have all hit on different facets of the problem - if this was someone else's family and I was giving advice, I'd definitely be telling them to contact someone for some outside help for everybody. So I will act on it, and let the cards fall as they may.

sedment

From the sounds of it, it sounds like something is going on with the 13yr old. Maybe she is being bullied at school or fed up with the mothers boyfriend coming and going whenever he pleases and getting lumbered with her little sister?
It might be another idea to take the 13yr old away on her own for a bit for a burger or cinema and have a heart to heart with her. At worst she will tell you to p*ss off and you will know that you have tried to help her, or she might just speak to you. Its terrible to hear how she behaves with your mother, must be heartbreaking for you.

meritaten

suki1001 wrote: »

I also think besides the immense stress on a 13 year old girl, I think Jojo has hinted at this somewhat, but you're getting one side of a story.

No matter what you think about the niece, you have to be very careful.

I was once friends with a vunerable poor diffenceless woman that lived on her own. She had an incredible way of making you feel sorry for her. Her weapon was gossip - how awful people had been to her. Her poor ex-bosses were the main target, we hated them, my oh wrote an anonimous letter to head office he was so incensed with the way they had treated her.

We bent over backwards for her, even set up in business together so she could start afresh. What did she do. Start complaining to other people about how awful we were, then we had a lynch mob after us. She tried to set up in business with another person on the premesis. These were clever women - not easily such in, yet she'd dripped so much poison in their ears that they were convinced.

Their wake up call. She told them I was a junkie (because I told her in confidence) I'd used recreational drugs as a teenager when I was struggling) and then reality hit. One of the women plucked up the courage to tell me, I was so hurt and realised her plan went wrong as soon as the emenies end up comparing notes. And then I realised she went from people to people and used manipulation techniques to get what she wanted. We were shocked at how I'd we'd all been sucked in. She'd painted my husband out to be some controlling maniac. She lied and lied and lied. Her motto must have been divide and conquer.

She had a way of doing things that I can't describe. People running around, buying her things, I did it, everyone did. She was so upset i bought her some expensive foundation (the only type she liked), she thanked me then started moaning about how her shoes hurt.I wouldn't have spent that money on my sister.

It was one of the biggest life lesson I have ever learnt and I suspect everyone whose path she has crossed has learned it to. Emotional con artist.

Sorry for the long story. Living under that one roof will be horendously, horendously stressful. My mum once moved in with us and they ended up hating each other, it was awful. Each thought the other one was the worst in the world.

As others have said, why is your mum staying there, she's putting up too many barriers to move. I mean sleeping on a sofa?. Be very careful taking sides.

The extremely cynical side of me (from experience) would say she's got you all exactly where she wants you. I really hope you get it sorted.

I am a bit cynical too - having experience of a very narcissistic MIL.
OK, you unfriended your niece because of her 'effbook' posts - but many teens use effbook as a way of 'sounding off'. thats why I rarely go on there - best friends one night, hating each other the next!
it makes me a bit suspicious that mum wont allow you (?) to speak to either niece or your sis. in mums shoes I would want you to. as an intermediary.............if I felt I couldnt raise it myself - which I would,I wouldnt allow my grandchild to speak to me that way.
I understand that you are upset on mums behalf - just take a step back and consider all the facts.

elsien

Just wondering whether your mum has had any OT input to help her manage in her own house? If the main reason she's selling is mobility problems, then there may be aids and adaptation she could use to stay in her own home for a while longer rather than on your sister's settee. It's not going to be a permanent solution, if she's looking to downsize anyway, but it could help her manage and give her a bit of leeway while the house sells. She can access the OT service via her GP.
If she's worried about falling/being on her own, then does the local council run a lifeline type system for emergencies, the one with a button which you wear round your neck? That's good for peace of mind.
However with what you've said about your mum not liking to be on her own, it may well be that she's decided that living with your sister and niece is preferable to being at home alone. And she probably needs to start to understand that there's going to have to be an element of compromise somewhere if she wants things to change at all, as at the moment she doesn't seem to be doing herself any favours.
Who got her her day centre place and transport? They seem the obvious people to go back to and say that things aren't working, mum needs more help.

Tiglath

Hi all - I'm resurrecting this as things have come to a head. Mum has been sleeping on my sister's sofa for 7 months now, with alternate weekends on my sofa. My sister's at cracking point (it's not her recurrent depression, it's the sheer stress of it all), the 13 year old niece is in trouble at school and on report because of the home situation, niece and Mum are constantly arguing.

When we were all there tonight, my sister told Mum she'd have to go back to her own house in the New Year because no-one was coping, and Mum freaked. She can't explain why she never wants to live in her house again, but it's emotional rather than physical. Physically she's not too bad - she can wash and dress herself fine, whether at mine or my sister's, and can walk well enough to go out (slowly) for breakfast with me when she stays.

I do at least have a good relationship with the niece now, and we can talk, so that's something. I've been helping her with schoolwork and trying to get her to see that if she doesn't stop all the backchatting and playing up at school, eventually they'll exclude her, so she's the only one who can turn that around. She was referred by the school for urgent counselling, saw a counsellor for an initial assessment, but she's apparently on a waiting list. My sister is due to see the headmistress to see if she can push things along.

DH and I both offered Mum to come and live with us, we'll turn the diningroom into her bedroom, and we'll sort out a day centre here, but she won't accept that because it's outside her area. Mum's house is not selling although we've dropped the price. She refuses to drive her car now - says she can't manage it with her swollen feet. She's adamant she will only move to the complex she wants to move to, but that can't happen until her house sells, and the window for that happening is narrowing because the price for settling the equity release scheme from the sale of her house will soon leave her in a position to not be able to afford the sheltered complex she wants.

I really don't know what my sister is going to do - is she physically going to remove Mum from her house in January? I have the first 2 weeks in January off and have offered Mum to come and stay with us to give everyone a break, which this evening she was refusing to contemplate, or alternatively I'll stay with her at her house for 2 weeks, but she won't go back there at all. I've offered to sort out a stairlift so she can sleep upstairs and use her bathroom again but she refuses to ever live there again.

So we have a manipulative Mum, a stressed-out sister, and a teenage niece going off the rails because of home pressure. I've come to see it's 6 of one and half-a-dozen of the other between Mum and niece as I wasn't getting the full picture, but my sister's priority has to be to her child, and Mum won't consider any of the options we've suggested. I don't want to be melodramatic but I think she's capable of starving herself into a decline; she stopped eating earlier this year but we managed to get her going again. She was offered counselling via the GP earlier in the year and refused to go. Still on antidepressants.

I'm going to phone Age Concern tomorrow afternoon to see if they have any suggestions, and also speak to her local council to see if they can help with any sheltered accommodation, although that may be unlikely as she's a homeowner. She was assessed earlier in the year as not needing care (because she was proud and did everything herself when a care assessment happened, so played right into their hands). I guess at the end of the day if Mum won't take up any of the suggestions we've made, she'll have to accept going back to her house, but I have a feeling she'll go downhill physically and mentally and possibly won't last more than a few months. Found out all her friends abandoned her because she kept threatening suicide earlier in the year. Very worrying. I don't know what the options are for her going into an actual residential care home, but I suspect we couldn't afford it even if we pooled all our resources.

Is there anything I haven't thought of? I'm most worried about my sister to be honest - she has such a lot on her plate. She hasn't contacted whichever authority to get me added as a relative yet because her life has been so chaotic with double shifts, looking after her daughters, driving Mum around and trying to sort out her non-resident husband's immigration visa, so I'm not sure how far I'll get, and whether we'll have to go back to scratch for a full assessment of Mum's needs with an emphasis on the emotional/mental side. It is at least all out in the open now in the family, with everyone but Mum agreeing that the current situation isn't workable, so we're all the enemy, with my niece as chief villain in Mum's mind. Tearing my hair out here but I can't make it right for everyone and I don't want the family to fall apart. The only happy one is the 18 month old niece. I just can't see a way to resolve all this.

whitewing

I'd be inclined for you and your sister to tell your mum she is staying in your dining room until the new year, and she can like it or lump it but your sister needs a break.

amyloofoo

If your sister has bipolar then does she have a community mental health nurse / support worker who could help to explain the situation to your mum, but from your sister's perspective IYSWIM? It must be putting a lot of stress on an already fragile family situation, so maybe your mum could be encouraged to think more of what's best for everyone involved, without getting to the actually kicking her out stage?

*max*

Terrible situation to be in, between a rock and a hard place!
I really feel for all of you, most of all your sister and her family; it can't be easy having grandma sleep on the couch for months on end. I know it would drive me potty.

From what you have written about your mum, it seems to me like she may be developping dementia. I know it's a difficult thing to acknowledge about a parent, but her refusal for help outside her environment, her denial that anything is wrong and her fear of anything unknown are telling.

You should ask for advice from Age concern again, and maybe her GP. It isn't unusual for people affected with dementia to vehemently deny there is anything wrong in the early stages.

All the best! x

Tiglath

Thanks guys. My sister doesn't have a community worker because until this all kicked off a year ago her longstanding depression was under control and she was doing really well; she's actually a psychiatric nurse and has coped far better with the insanity of her home life than I ever could, but it's been so hard on her this year. Her professional view is that Mum has some kind of personality disorder rather than the start of dementia, but as far as I'm aware Mum hasn't been professionally investigated for dementia. The GP may be a useful route to go down - thanks for suggesting it; I'll take time off work and go along because Mum will simply deny to the GP that there's an emotional/mental issue at all. The female side of the family has always been strange and the relationship between Mum and sister doubly so - Mum has tried to sabotage every step of independence my sister has tried to have for the past 25 years, through 2 marriages and 2 children.

My DH has some trained counselling skills and over the past year he's been the one who's gently been able to get through to Mum on a few issues, like wrking on increasing her independence. She's due to stay with us the weekend before Christmas, so he's suggested I slope off to do some shopping while he has a chat with her; if any of us can reach her and get her to see she's being unreasonable and to consider some practical alternatives, it'll be him because he's the golden son-in-law who can do no wrong. DH grew up in a multigenerational house - his grandmother and great-nana lived with them all growing up, so it's normal for him.

I'll see what Age Concern say this afternoon. If she won't live alone, a care home of some kind seems the only option, but how to fund that is completely beyond me at this stage. Sister and I both hurt our backs when Mum was physically less able at the start of the year - there was a lot of lifting as she was doubly incontinent back then - and I had to have a disc replaced through lifting her. The prolapsed uterus is playing up again; she's paranoid that it's on the point of falling out, it rubs and gets ulcerated, and it's worse when she's tense at the beginning of a weekend with us but has always improved by the time we take her home because she always has a calm time here. I have to inspect whichever part of her anatomy is hanging down at any time; I could probably qualify as a gynecologist by this stage :eek:. Her GP is brilliant about removing the pessary, cleaning it and reinserting it, but getting her there at all is a challenge. She does have private medical insurance but I'm not sure if it would cover any kind of counselling - she's been paying into it for 40 years and has only ever had one physio session on her knee. She'll cope with any amount of physical pain and refuses to take any painkillers ever, but the emotional stuff absolutely flummoxes her so she goes into denial.

I suspect even if her house sold and she magically got a place in the complex she wants, she'd find some other kind of roadblock because she just wants to live with my sister. I bought her a car over the summer to give her some independence back, and for a while she'd potter to the library etc but apparently she hasn't driven it in weeks now. There's a fine line between trying to do the right thing for everyone and imposing a solution on Mum, but that may the only route if my sister et al are going to survive this because it's reached crisis point. I wasn't keen on the way the niece was gleeful about my sister giving Mum an ultimatum last night and had to remind her that an angry frustrated tone of voice wasn't helping. Anyway we need the professionals involved now to find a longterm solution so I'll sit down with my sister after I've spoken to Age Concern and we'll see what we can do.

Sambucus_Nigra

So really, this is just more of your mum still sabotaging your sister?

I can see why your niece was gleeful to be honest. Can you not just not take your mum back one weekend? Give your sister's family permanent respite?