delicate subject - abortion

likelyfran

Nicki wrote: »

Hmmm. 47% of women who have had an abortion have more than one. So, whilst you are right to say it is a minority, only just!

Interesting. Thank you Nicki!

likelyfran

Person_one wrote: »

Pregnancy and childbirth still carry significant health risks, including death. No way would I be taking that chance to provide someone else with a baby.

Hmm, well let's hope you're another one who makes great efforts to use contraception then.

likelyfran

Welshwoofs wrote: »

Well the 3 girls in the Telegraph piece were either a few sandwiches short of a picnic or massively stupid.

The figures in that piece show that 434 women out of 189,931 had more than 5 abortions and my take on that is that it's not a high percentage and that they're probably as dumb as rocks anyway....just like the women who have 5+ children when they have no source of income.

Having said that, I don't have a problem with someone having more than one abortion in principle. As I said, if contraception failed me now and I got pregnant...I would abort again, however that doesn't mean that I'm using abortion as a contraception. There could easily be cases of women who had an abortion when young who then went on to have children and perhaps got pregnant again later on in life and had to abort due to medical issues.

Yes. And that kind of stupidity is rife these days, that's the real problem.

likelyfran

Person_one wrote: »

It certainly is ludicrous, that's sort of the point.

Nobody who is pro-choice wishes to dictate the decisions of other women, that's what the so called 'pro life' crowd want to do.

Well, by that kind of logic, perhaps the Police/Law/anyone ever, shouldn't 'dictate the decisions' of anyone ever!
Yeah! Free for all! Let's all run amok, killing, fornicating, whatever we fancy, how dare anyone try to tell us what to do??!

Person_one

likelyfran wrote: »

Well, by that kind of logic, perhaps the Police/Law/anyone ever, shouldn't 'dictate the decisions' of anyone ever!
Yeah! Free for all! Let's all run amok, killing, fornicating, whatever we fancy, how dare anyone try to tell us what to do??!

The police and the law don't tend to dictate what people do to their own bodies.

Nicki

Person_one wrote: »

The police and the law don't tend to dictate what people do to their own bodies.

Umm, anyone who is a danger to themselves, because of self harming behaviour, can be sectioned under the MHA for their own safety.

Certain extreme forms of S and M are also illegal, even where all parties are of sound mind and consenting (R v Brown)

Ending your own life (where you need assistance due to disability) is also not permitted.

I could look up more examples but those three sprang first to mind.

Welshwoofs

Nicki wrote: »

or unpalatable as it sounds, there are tens of thousands of women every year in this country who choose not to use contraception properly and consistently (or at all) and rely on the easy availability of abortion to bail them out.

But that makes no logical sense in my mind. I'm at the end of the 'it was trivial to me' scale, but even though it wasn't painful and I didn't regret it, having a general anaesthetic is frightening! I can totally understand taking that route if contraception fails or isn't used properly (after all..I did it)...but I can't understand someone choosing to take that route over using contraception of any kind.

I find it hard to believe this is a social good.

It's better than having unwanted children.

Actually, digging in to those figures:

"The proportion of women who have had more than one previous abortion is roughly 9%"

"Research on repeat abortion suggests that women who have more than one abortion are no different to those who have one abortion: they are no less likely to use contraception, and are certainly not using abortion as a means of contraception"
http://www.abortionreview.org/index.php/site/article/962/

Person_one

I doubt it.

There are many reasons why people make seemingly poor decisions, we shouldn't be so quick to judge.

There are women who have baby after baby removed by social services too, parents who neglect, damage or abandon child after child. Lots of people have issues that make their lives tougher and more chaotic than thankfully yours and mine are.

Nicki

That link was interesting to drill into the figures welshwoofs. But it still shows that 5,600 women in the UK had at least their third abortion in 2011 (could be more) with another 58,000 odd having had their second that year. Which means that earlier statements on the thread about only a very small number of women having multiple abortions, or only a tiny percentage of abortions being not a woman's one and only, are just wrong.

Nicki

Welshwoofs wrote: »

.but I can't understand someone choosing to take that route over using contraception of any kind.

I guess what I meant by "choosing not to use contraception or use it properly", was not the way you have interpreted it - ie wanting to have a termination, but rather in the sense of knowing that they were at risk of pregnancy, and yet not bothering to do anything to prevent it, ie choosing to accept a risk. So, for example, knowing their implant or depo jab had expired and not using barrier until it was renewed, having a one night stand without protection and without then taking the MAP or having a coil inserted, running out of pills and not using alternative methods for the correct length of time. In other words playing fast and loose, knowing that they were at risk of pregnancy even though this wasn't an outcome they wanted, in reliance of the fact that if they did conceive they could easily abort