MSE News: Orange ends free broadband

bod1467

neil9313 wrote: »

I rest my case.

Remind me again of what you have put forward re the "Orange debate" ? :money:

How about you read my first reply to this thread? You know - the one IMMEDIATELY BELOW your first reply?

And you should notice that it was YOU who started being obtuse and disparaging after I asked about the 1 year old article - I asked a genuine question and made the basis of my statement clear, but you decided to try and use it as a basis to try and belittle me.

nickbirkin

How about BOD and Neil let this spat go and concentrate on the issue in hand? Come on guys this page is here to create a groundswell re Orange and their unfair practices

neil9313

bod1467 wrote: »

How about you read my first reply to this thread? You know - the one IMMEDIATELY BELOW your first reply?

And you should notice that it was YOU who started being obtuse and disparaging after I asked about the 1 year old article - I asked a genuine question and made the basis of my statement clear, but you decided to try and use it as a basis to try and belittle me.

You followed me on to the MSE post regarding Orange and asked the same question again. You could not be bothered to read it properly.

Your very quick to judge but offer no help at all, and you don't even have Orange BB.

In fact none of your posts have offered any helpful information. That's why I have not thanked you by the way,

"If this post was helpful, please don't forget the Thanks button"

Eva49

Thanks for posting those guidelines Nick, very helpful

bod1467

neil9313 wrote: »

You followed me on to the MSE post regarding Orange and asked the same question again.

Oh please! Don't flatter yourself. The fact that my post was below yours was entirely coincidental - and I made no comment on your post. Just because I happen to agree with the (majority of) posters in that other thread doesn't make my opinion any less valid! Sheesh!

diamonds

nickbirkin wrote: »

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[FONT=Arial,Arial]The EQUITABLE way of doing this would have been to withdraw the broadband as the individual contracts expired.[/FONT]




[/FONT]

It would also have been the legal way also.

diamonds

chanz4 wrote: »

don't forget if you loose, you will pay their costs

Hi Chanz,

I have a great deal for you, I'm the 100% owner of Vodafone -my contract is unlimited everything everywhere mobile contract on all Vodafone networks worldwide for £1500 a month for 24 months, to boot I'm going to give you a free Aston Martin on a second contract at a incentive of £0.00 a month as you signed your first contract.

You love this offer, you sign up for both contracts on 20/6/2012.

On 19/8/2012 I send you notice of 30 days of intention to withdraw the second contract, or you pay me £6000 a month to keep the car/contract ongoing, for this new payment I give you a additonal new furry dice air freshner every month, you also will now have to buy petrol at a cost set by me.

Now you dont need furry dice at all as you think its naff & prefer your current uber cool air freshner at a much much cheaper price from elsewhere, as is with the petrol costs.

You refuse the offer of my new terms on the second contract, I take back the Aston Martin & bill you £1500 a month until the 24 month contract term is complete & now you cant use Vodafone in europe as you have no car to travel in.

Your happy & so am I travelling round the world backpacking in top hotels on your £1500 a month and the other 100000 customers payments who cant access europe either with no car & have hefty UK only mobile, you signed the first contract & have no right to cancel

Me and Martin meet up & drink £10,000 bottles of champagne with Kylie& Dannii at Sydney Opera House bar ( and afterwards....) when moneysupermarket completes its full transfer of MSE to thier control & laugh our !!! off at hopeless moneysaving uneducated people who refuse to enforce thier legal rights.

I do the same in Australia with Vodafone AU with another 250,000 customers & we all meet up in New York next time.


Next I do the same in the USA with my 45% ownership of Verizon, me Martin, Dannii & Kylie meet up in Spain with my Vodafone Spain division I do the same.

And on & on and Ariston round all my Vodafone subsiduary companies. Apple, Microsoft & BP are but flitting companies with no real value to me as Vodafone.

Meanwhile Aston Martin make a killing from short term £5000 2 month leases & become the worlds biggest car manufacturer by income, I also as a perk get a fresh brand new 0 mileage Aston Martin everyday

I'm untouchable as its all legal and above board and I'm richer than USA's tax receipt office !!!

Everybody's a winner, aint that the truth

diamonds

nickbirkin wrote: »

The following is from the Office of Fair Trading's document on Unfair contracts and should hopefully clear up the grey areas with regards Orange hiding behind their clauses;
17. Orange reserves the right to amend these terms and conditions at any time on reasonable notice.
18. Orange reserves the right to replace, amend or withdraw this Offer on reasonable notice.
The OFT states;
10.1 A right for one party to alter the terms of the contract after it has been agreed, regardless of the consent of the other party, is under strong suspicion of unfairness. A contract can be considered balanced only if both parties are bound by their obligations as agreed.
10.2 If a term could be used to force the consumer to accept increased costs or penalties, new requirements, or reduced benefits, it is likely to be considered unfair whether or not it is meant to be used in that way.
10.3 ( c ) there is a duty on the supplier to give notice of any variation, and a right for the consumer to cancel before being affected by it, without penalty or otherwise being worse off for having entered the contract.
10.4 A term which merely says that variations will only be 'reasonable' or will only be made 'reasonably', is unlikely to be any fairer than one which contains no such qualification, unless there can be little doubt in a reasonable consumer's mind as to what sort of variation, broadly speaking, such wording allows, and in what circumstances.
Orange defend this point by saying the two contracts are not linked despite the Free Broadband T&C’s stating
6. If you are on an Eligible Tariff the Offer will be applied to your account for the period you remain on an Eligible Tariff.
I think it is reasonable to say one contract was linked to the other.

Nickbirkin knows "google" & a friend in need is a friend indeed.

diamonds

nickbirkin wrote: »

Dear Diamond,
I agree with your premise and wonder if you have a crib sheet so to speak so that the thousands of us in this position can all swamp Orange with these court proceedings?
Cheers Nick

You answered your own above^

Submit to small claims court explaining Orange are locking you to the mobile contract but withdrawing the second FREE contract to your detriment & refusing to let you leave mobile contract penalty free & quote the legislation you posted. Thats the basic, if you are tied to your landline provider contract include this as a detriment and the cost.

Everyone in detail go through the difference in Orange Line Rental costs & calling costs from your current landline provider include also 18185 etc shortcode suppliers, 08, 077, 09 numbers etc loss of access if your current line rental company allows such access as Orange Line Rental do not allow such access on BT Wholesale as Orange andline - the detriment to keep FREE broadband could work out at hundreds per month for some users.

Also include the rise in Orange call charges from 19 September 2012 as another financial detriment against you keep free broadband, so usage before 19 Sep & usage after based on all your billed providers for the last few months or further if you wish.

A few hours work indepth to be prepared for small claims is being reactive & proactive will make you win, win, WIN & thus released from your "unfair" mobile contract You are all claiming the cost of early termination form your Orange mobile contract - get that amount from Orange the day you submit your online small court claim, thus you are enforcing your right to leave penalty free via small claimns court.

Orange might be losing money on "home" products, but they will be losing alot more on mobile products now :cool: with public "damage Orange cant manage" to the brand (AGAIN!)


Small claims - quick, simple, legal

Orange - bitter, twisted, french :rotfl:


Ofcom are being diabolical in this by doing nothing with so many registered complaints against Orange, you should be proactive & report them to thier boss and part financial funder the man elected by us - Minister of Culture, Media & Sport the MP Jeremy Hunt http://www.jeremyhunt.org/
if we allow Ofcom not to represent us telecom consumers in such blatent breaches of legislation by Orange & other telcos (plenty in the past is there not) by our telecom licence regulator, why are our taxes paying Ofcom & Jeremy Hunt ? Get reactive & proactive folks, WE fund & own these government & regulatory quangos, if we dont stand up to them NOTHING changes like the last 10 years of diabolical Ofcom pittance of a regulator service.


Orange went to the dogs when France Telecom bought it, in Sept 2011 the first frenchman took the top job at parent company Everything Everywhere.
He previously was vice president at France Telecom - Orange's grandparent company so it looks like things for T-Mobile & Orange in the UK will get worse & worse then now if the recent Orange demise by a grandparents ex employee, poor germans are going to be bankrupt with T-mobile UK, well you did cop off with a frog that was never going to be your prince, live & learn.

Maybe France has a lack of good consumer protection legislation he thinks he can do the same in the UK ? Oh no you dont froggy LOL, and yet he cant even get the newest Orange Livebox version out of France to the UK let alone the old french/europe version which would be a upgrade to current UK Livebox customers, nor can he provide decent broadband backhaul through one of the biggest suppliers in Europe - FRANCE TELECOM - but allowed BT Wholesale profits over Orange UK ! - some ex French Telecom Vice President he was then, all job title....no power, or balls & common sense.

Lets see the palava he makes of Orange & T-mobile ongoing, and after a year of review he's off to a fantastic Orange UK start already :T He will probably sell Orange Home (line rental & broadband) back to BT as its not profitable enough, more so after losing FREE broadband customers & thier lost mobile revenues financial contribution to Orange UK, LOL.

Strange thing is you would think a ex VP of France Tellaliecom would be pitching T-Mobile brand as the poor division of Everything Everywhere & growing & protecting Orange brand, apparently not, apparently you !!!! off loyal customers spend million on million on a new 4G brand & waste millions more on 4 different corporate identities.

Its not a UNIQUE concept at Orange that ^one^, UMA Thurman might just have be paid millions influenced by ALEXANDER to upset Orange Broadband customers advertising Virgin Superduper fast broadband like the Orange 4G product coming they just cant sell to alot of annoyed HM Courts abdicated ex Orange customers & swallowing the costs of such on a big scale whilst EU inspired Ofcom termination rates are just in the pennies per minute these days.

Adverts are just a SIGNAL BOOST to consumers about companies & products alike, but some customers need signal boosts on thier Orange bareband even now BT Holesaled has Orange bareband, thankful I am though Orange TV never launched imagine the french inspired "i am" or the futures bright (when its has not been for a decade) adverts on every advert break ! besides who wants a forever buffering freeview of a buffering non catch up tv service, its time to Talk the Talk or walk the walk, one decison Orange came good on in a decade, shame it disappointed customers with a 3 year wait for nothing, but disappointment is what the french are good at.

Anyhow, the biggest boost any of us could have is a signal Orange UK gives a hoot about its staff or customers & that ugly top Orange table inspired by cheap & nasty ikea actually listens, but no, only listen to Fart Telecom - its a fatal attraction.

Oh how stupid to lose all them disgruntled Orange mobile customers when you are away to launch the first 4G mobile network in the UK. Maybe you sell off Orange Home for 4G internet access, forgetting BT Infinity, quite frankly the guy seems a corporate idiot, he should easily go into UK banking in a good senior position quite easily....

Hi to all the Everything Everywhere staff by the way I know this will make its rounds copied to in a email - bit of advice my dear good orange uk-france telecom "computer says no" inputters, Orange has never been the titanic but jump ship before you sink with it

EE'ers I think Olaf should bring out two new staff price plans to join owl, fox, squirrel etc, me thinks "mouse" & for good measure as we are not all french animal like communicators the "hu/man" plan, so is it man or mouse your going to give us Olaf ??

I'm undecided as Olaf on it, you see I forget things quite easily online trying to submit & re-write them when the page fails as I'm still on a slow Orange broadband connection to save you being hemorrhaged by BT Wholesale as well you didnt quite succeed in hemorrhaging yourself enough inhouse on LLU, that hemorrhaging was like WILDFIRE, no wonder you got rid of her.

On ^both^ counts not listening to your customers or in providing good & wanted services you hemorrhaged your own revenue, then cut more wanted services to save money (roundabouts and swings must be derived from french sayings) through your own french inspired mentality...when simply no one buys stale products off thier hard (earned) bread, you would think of all cultures the french knew stale bread is unloved & unwanted.


Oh 2 secs EE'ers, I have a call on my SECOND LINE on my non EE brand mobile...............................................................................................................................


Ok I'm back, "sorry you had to hold the line its very busy with incoming calls today" & the second line on my Livebox is out of order and I cant get a replacement Livebox as France Telecom wont upgrade or release any from the prison camps in mainland Europe to the island of ill repent, unFiT must make us pay for our crimes afterall, being British.

Premier customer care ? oh what a misguided concept - in business all customers are kings you silly old Orange fake tanned faced queen !
Really sometimes showing no face is the best or only option at all, but not when you breach unfair contracts legislation & remove products & enforce mobile contracts then hide, and ALL this only 10 months after this: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/oct/26/orange-broadband-customer-care Olaf try taking a leaf out of Bruno Duarte's book & try saving your & Orange UK's ASHAMED RED face, its quite simple you can just copy/paste the above webpage & get your most idiotic call centre staff to edit your name in over Bruno's. Seems a sensible chap to run Everything Everywhere really "Our objective is to get to a point where we are no longer ashamed of what we are doing to our customers – or, to put it positively, where we are proud of what we are doing to our customers".

Bruno's a spin doctor, he could teach you alot about decisions & brand damage limitation, infact quick the tories or labour might snap him up quicker than you can click your heels together but not quicker than a customer launching one full pelt that gets lost in your red face, but alas noone would know its there so maybe thats a good thing ? or else you maybe you could play the "i wish to go home" card when you click them heels, actually that sounds like the best solution all round.


When a ex VP from FT is inolved in a company with actions like this http://www.standardlifeinvestments.com/CG_Letter_France_Telecom/getLatest.pdf
its no wonder whats happening at Orange UK, so thats UK pensions and UK mobile users grabbed by the balls then ! And what do our governments or regulators do ? NOTHING !


Anyhow its been real nice communicating with you EE'ers but on a last note I will say if a non virgin mobile CEO like ALEXANDER cant sort Orange out, no-one can unless unFiT (for purpose) offhive the whole UK division to a company who can, its that bloody rank cheap & nasty Orange topped table again you see, its like a stalker the police cant touch.

Anyhow on the face of a proper company buying & making the company colourful (out of the dark ages of a decade) in more than just name for staff & customers alike lets face it the germans have the cash for Europe let alone Orange UK but like unFiT dont know how to b-mobile or else they would know Orange & pink clash (maybe its the current revival of the 80's fashions ?) or merging with the french is a no no for any country internationally....maybe we can climb the Apple(s) (where anyone can unlock your phone & not 1 employee for the whole of a comapny with millions of customers!) and pears out of this irn-bru inspired fake tan box we are in as vanity is all see through, just like them coloured boxes that are TradeMarked but have had no colourful or services with substance over a decade.

The French never did beat the British Empire, even sadly in a mobile company, I fear death if I mention the broadband company in the same sentence as thats a sensitive issue for staff & customers on many different issues alike so we will just move this right along like a Orange script "we have not breached your terms & conditions and you cannot leave your mobile contract free even if we left you with no broadband "

Two exclusive contracts make one, two wrongs dont make a (or you) right Orange.

All this from a company you text a Orange service number and get a delivery report back that even charges you 1p to communicate with them to know they got they recieved your text, DOH !!!

The future is very red for a very long time for your a good deal of your current and soon to be ex CUSTOMERS Orange.



Its all really abit wishy washy this decade, but my 15 year old dishwasher does a better, cheaper job & the onboard computer chip always says yes, because thats big Britain.

Desperately I gotto go now my lovelies, I wannapoo.

Put your Hans up if you feel love tonight !!!!

EE'ers...love to you all Xx

THEE Orange Guru - aka "the DIAMOND standard"

(gonna wash that network right outta my hair)

PS) If you sick of customer care repping in a telco, start your own business by becoming a MVNO & to succeed do everything opposite of Orange UK to succeed like Virgin Mobile did before ALEXANDER dawned the door of Orange UK & contributed to its demise

nickbirkin

I recieved this from OFCOM today....
Thank you for your web submission of 3 September 2012 regarding the withdrawal of Orange’s free broadband. I was sorry to read about your issue and can understand the concern caused. In terms of our role, although we do not deal with individual complaints, I can supply some information which I hope will clarify the position.

We do set regulations which state that whilst a provider can make a change to the terms and conditions of a contract, including its tariff, they must give the customer at least 30 days notice. If the customer considers the change it to their material detriment, the provider must inform the consumer of their ability to exit the contract, penalty free.

In your case, as the mobile contract is not linked to the broadband one, it appears Orange are doing nothing wrong because they are releasing you from the broadband contract free of charge. I appreciate this may not be the answer you were looking for, but I thought explain the position.

WHAT IS THIS ALL ABOUT!!!!!
How can the the mobile contract NOT be linked to the mobile contract when the broadband contract states you will lose it if you cease to have a mobile contract!!!
This is doing my head in. :mad:
I have expressed this to OFCOM and will post their reply if I get one.
Off to Citizens Advice tommorrow to seek some clarification on contract and implied contract law.
If there are any legal bods reading these forum, speak now of forever hold your peice