Opinions Please - Work Issue.

Janepig

HeatherintheHills wrote: »

Jane, the bold bits. On the one hand you say that people's reasons for taking leave are nobody else's business, but you seem to change your mind about that when it comes to those of us who do not have school age children if we choose to take leave "for no particular reason" during school holidays. That is a bit unfair isn't it?

The bit in italics. How on earth are non school age parents expected to keep track of the holidays of 4 different LEAs? Yet with your personal expectation of parents being given preferential treatment during school holiday times, anyone working with you would have to check all of that out before booking a holiday in order not to incur your wrath? That could extend the parental preference weeks to at least 18 weeks per year and that is a ridiculous expectation.

For the record I have also always tried to ensure parents I have worked with have been able to take the holidays they want and have changed my own bookings sometimes to help with that. Yet I have still been moaned at for booking leave (weeks in advance) on what turned out to be an inset day, because the parent "may" need to take the day off themselves! Now that kind of attitude gets right up my nose.

I realise it might look like I'm contradicting myself, maybe I am, but I suppose what I mean is that whilst I feel it's the individual's own business WHY they need leave, I personally couldn't take leave, knowing I had no special reason to do so, knowing that my taking that leave would mean that a parent colleague would be missing out on some school holiday time with their children.

There again, perhaps the "parent" thing is a bit of a red herring. I couldn't take leave for "no reason", "just because" if that meant that my colleague couldn't take time off to spend with her visiting nieces, or my other colleague couldn't take time off to go to hospital with his wife, etc.... I like to think we take account of all our individual needs and work our leave around them.

Not sure what you mean about the four different LEA's causing a problem, or that anyone would have to check with me so as not to "incur my wrath" like I'm some kind of monster. I said in my original post that it might extend things a bit, but it only ever tends to be half terms are sometimes spread over two weeks. It rarely, if ever, extends to the main school holidays, or if it does it's just by a few days.

Also when you are sitting together with colleagues in the same team, as I do, and get on well, you tend to mention things like "when are your kids off for half term, is it different to mine", if you want to get into a bit of forward planning. As I say, in my experience it's been handy, as it's meant that you haven't got all your parent staff wanting leave at the same time (and for instance, February isn't usually a time when you have all the non parents clamouring for leave is it?).

Jx

lostinrates

Wow, every one is very heated on this one.

We are childfree but dh lodges close to where he works. He is always willing to work into the night, and does many allnighters, and if /when this is considered in who might benefit from an early end of week departure that is considered he is pleased.

He usually takes a couple of days of over summer to help with other stuff (we both like to garden and have other outside interests, and a small business which has a one week seasonal peak).

This summer he has worked from home a bit because I have been unwell and we both wanted him to come with me to my medical appointments where possible.

I think even with all that we both remember that sometimes things are different for people with children, and consider that its. Ot always a choice for a parent to work, but a necessity. A kids nativity play is always going to 'trump' us watching elf for the umpteenth time in pjs on the sofa and we are content with that most of the time.

Northern_Princess

Putting all the debate aside, here's an update...

I spoke to my Team Leader this morning and he agreed something was 'not right'. I believe he spoke to the lady in question (I went to do the banking at work and when I came back the TL and lady were not in the office so I'm only assuming). We had an unscheduled Team Meeting this afternoon where it was made clear to us all that it was up to individuals if they wished to swap Christmas Eve working, as long as there is 3 of us to cover phones we can swap with who we like. It was also made clear that if people wished holidays at certain times to request them and not request them knowing others were already off which the full team had been in agreement with months ago.

The lady at work is not being the nicest person to work with at the moment and is being completely awkward. She now only wants 2 days of the October break instead of the full 5 (Tuesday and Thursday) and made a huge deal today of saying she only wants those 2 days to 'chill'. I am however ignoring her comments and will not ever go out of my way to accommodate her again. I have now rebooked our break away for the week before the October break and will not be changing it.

I was told today by a member of a team this lady used to work in she was moved for a reason. The reason being she caused trouble in her previous team regarding flexi and annual leave and wanted leave others had already booked. When she did not get the leave she wanted she raised grievance after grievance against team members and her TL, therefore it looks like this is a historical issue.

Thank you all for your advice and thoughts. A lot of them have made me more aware of how others in the workplace perceive things regarding leave and flexi and that was particularly useful for me to bear in mind in future.

lostinrates

Northern_Princess wrote: »

Putting all the debate aside, here's an update...

I spoke to my Team Leader this morning and he agreed something was 'not right'. I believe he spoke to the lady in question (I went to do the banking at work and when I came back the TL and lady were not in the office so I'm only assuming). We had an unscheduled Team Meeting this afternoon where it was made clear to us all that it was up to individuals if they wished to swap Christmas Eve working, as long as there is 3 of us to cover phones we can swap with who we like. It was also made clear that if people wished holidays at certain times to request them and not request them knowing others were already off which the full team had been in agreement with months ago.

The lady at work is not being the nicest person to work with at the moment and is being completely awkward. She now only wants 2 days of the October break instead of the full 5 (Tuesday and Thursday) and made a huge deal today of saying she only wants those 2 days to 'chill'. I am however ignoring her comments and will not ever go out of my way to accommodate her again. I have now rebooked our break away for the week before the October break and will not be changing it.

I was told today by a member of a team this lady used to work in she was moved for a reason. The reason being she caused trouble in her previous team regarding flexi and annual leave and wanted leave others had already booked. When she did not get the leave she wanted she raised grievance after grievance against team members and her TL, therefore it looks like this is a historical issue.

Thank you all for your advice and thoughts. A lot of them have made me more aware of how others in the workplace perceive things regarding leave and flexi and that was particularly useful for me to bear in mind in future.

Personally i would not get drawn into conversation with other colleagues/ former team members over the issue. If asked i would skirt the issue.

GobbledyGook

She sounds like someone I used to work with. They felt that as the 'senior' (age wise) member of the team everyone should defer to her and she should get some sort of priority. She made one girls life hell for ages after she was 'disrespectful' enough to use her cup by accident. So petty.

Errata

lostinrates wrote: »

Personally i would not get drawn into conversation with other colleagues/ former team members over the issue. If asked i would skirt the issue.

Sensible advice, gossip has a nasty habit of rebounding.

Northern_Princess

Errata wrote: »

Sensible advice, gossip has a nasty habit of rebounding.

Completely agree but it was useful to know this with the current situation.

adelight

GobbledyGook wrote: »

She sounds like someone I used to work with. They felt that as the 'senior' (age wise) member of the team everyone should defer to her and she should get some sort of priority.

I've had this with colleagues who were also fans of grievances and it is so frustrating! One boiling hot summer one woman would not let anyone open the windows or put the aircon on because she was cold. She was just wearing a vest but wouldn't put her cardigan on and suggestions she do so were followed by tutting, dirty looks and comments about how you were being disrespectful. There was ~16 of us all dripping with sweat and the place stunk but she would not budge. One bloke eventually opened the window nearest him and she went off to the boss and complained that it was discrimination because she was old!

At my current job noone has priority for leave but I still reckon I'll guilt trip myself into giving up leave for others and then be quietly annoyed at myself for doing so When I was a kid I was lucky to get one week of the school holidays a year with a parent. I'd hate to think I was making another kid spend a miserable six weeks in some child minders back room. But I don't think anyone should get priority by right.

jtr2803

OP, I feel for you. I think it's very kind and selfless of you to offer to give up your xmas eve to the ladies with young children, sometimes by doing the 'right' thing you invariably end up doing the 'wrong' thing.

Until two years ago I was the only person in a team of 8 with a child and we always agreed between us who would be in over xmas and NY, we have always run skeleton staff as the majority of suppliers close down for the break. We would normally ask around at this time of year who would like which days off and come to an informal arrangement between ourselves. However, this year I noticed one of my colleagues who has a young son had blanked out his entire diary from Xmas eve until into the new year, I asked my manager if he had approved the leave and he knew nothing about it. Fortunately, I think we will all still manage to have the leave that we would like but I just think it's a shame that it wasn't mentioned to anyone, or even approved, as another (childfree) member of staff is hoping to go away for the New Year which means we may need to switch our days around. When it was mentioned to said member of staff the response was 'well I want to spend it with my son!'............

I have also experienced the other side which was working for a large government body in a team of about 20 ladies, most of whom had children of various ages. Xmas was a complete NIGHTMARE, the same thing happened every year, we would all be asked to request the leave we wanted and then everyone would be told they would have to give up a day to come in and cover. On the surface this seems fair but there were a few of us who would only request the actual days we wanted, maybe 2 or 3 and would have to give one of those up, but those who had booked the whole two weeks off would also only have to give one day up. It ended up becoming a game as everyone started booking longer and longer, with the 'supervisors' having their leave approved first!

As a side note, generally I find working with men much easier :rotfl:

sunshine_1988

adelight wrote: »

I've had this with colleagues who were also fans of grievances and it is so frustrating! One boiling hot summer one woman would not let anyone open the windows or put the aircon on because she was cold. She was just wearing a vest but wouldn't put her cardigan on and suggestions she do so were followed by tutting, dirty looks and comments about how you were being disrespectful. There was ~16 of us all dripping with sweat and the place stunk but she would not budge. One bloke eventually opened the window nearest him and she went off to the boss and complained that it was discrimination because she was old!

At my current job noone has priority for leave but I still reckon I'll guilt trip myself into giving up leave for others and then be quietly annoyed at myself for doing so When I was a kid I was lucky to get one week of the school holidays a year with a parent. I'd hate to think I was making another kid spend a miserable six weeks in some child minders back room. But I don't think anyone should get priority by right.

Ive had similar too ! Except the opposite way around, I worked with a ladynif a certain age who was always always too hot - even if it was snowing she had t shirt on with no coat. She sat by the window and insisted it was wide open at all times. It drove everyone mad as we had a constant icy draught, so one day we put a small fan heater on for 1 hour as the majority of us were freezing. She only complained that it was drying her eyes out! It got raised at our team meeting and we were banned from using the fan heaters as it was damaging colleagues health!

So glad I moved teams!!!