Opinions Please - Work Issue.

There_Goes_Trouble

For those who question the need for childless people to take time off in school holidays:

I don't have children. (NOT through choice!!)
I do have nieces and nephews.
Booking time off in school holidays means I can spend quality time with them.

Does that make me selfish?

I don't have much money or any single friends to holiday with.
My only holiday each year is a camping trip with my siblings and their children.
Obviously, this means I need time off in school holidays.

Does that make me selfish?

I love to see the kids on Christmas eve/day with their presents.
My siblings are generous enough to share those moments with me.
I would be gutted if I HAD to work because I don't have my own children.

Does that make me selfish?

Just because they are not my own children, why should I have to miss out on these things? I work my share of school holidays but I want my share of them too.

coolcait

Janepig wrote: »

...before I had children, and indeed when DD was "pre-school" we always took our holidays in either early to mid July or....
Jx

Your post has a lot of indicators of personal preference (and you acknowledge that). Or other factors.

The part I've picked out illustrates that point further. Early to mid July is 'school summer holiday' time in Scotland.

If you were part of my team, in my part of the world, and had wanted to book holidays in early to mid July, I would have considered your application without any reference as to whether or not you were a parent.

Bufger

sounds like somebody isnt getting any..

sunshine_1988

Northern_Princess wrote: »

I find it awful that your Line Manager did that to you all. I have managed teams in the past and been the person to work more hours if any of my team needed time off rather than take it myself. You know, we actually have never had issues until today about all this. It has come completely by surprise

Thank you for your lovely comment. I'm the sort of person who would swap holidays/try to cover leave etc if I can no matter whether they have kids or not. I suppose I look at Christmas as a family time and remember well the Christmas Eve's of past I could not be with my children because I was working. Now my children are almost grown up it makes me happy to see other mums have the opportunities of enjoying Christmas Eve with their kids. I don't think that's a bad thing

Me neither I now have a baby and work in a new team, I will be back at work by Xmas and I know 3 of the other ladies have children. If it happens that we all want Xmas Eve off, I don't mind working out some kind of a rota system to make it fair and I think this is what we will do.

My old line manager was a sod - as she printed the leave cards she would just literally type her leave in and that would be it for the year!! I would have always tried to help as she had young children but I didn't like the fact that she assumed she could have first pick just because she was a parent.

I hope your colleague improves !! x

thegirlintheattic

As someone who is currently childless I do understand people being annoyed by allowances being regularly made for parents with young children. I don't mind the occasional thing, for example in previous jobs those with children leaving a bit early some days to go to parents evenings etc. but there is a limit, and if there are non-parents wanting time off it should be a case of parents go first. Although maybe not reached in the OPs case.

For example, I'm a teacher so only get school holidays off which I use some of to visit my parents who live over 300 miles away. When my dad asked for two days off during the summer holidays so he could spend some quality time with me he was initially refused as he didn't have a young family. Luckily common sense prevailed and he was eventually allowed to put in for leave like those with young families.

dizziblonde

There_Goes_Trouble wrote: »

For those who question the need for childless people to take time off in school holidays:

I don't have children. (NOT through choice!!)
I do have nieces and nephews.
Booking time off in school holidays means I can spend quality time with them.

Does that make me selfish?

I don't have much money or any single friends to holiday with.
My only holiday each year is a camping trip with my siblings and their children.
Obviously, this means I need time off in school holidays.

Does that make me selfish?

I love to see the kids on Christmas eve/day with their presents.
My siblings are generous enough to share those moments with me.
I would be gutted if I HAD to work because I don't have my own children.

Does that make me selfish?

Just because they are not my own children, why should I have to miss out on these things? I work my share of school holidays but I want my share of them too.

Could also add in people who want to take leave during school holidays in order to watch other people's children... which again, some on this thread would want to slap with the childless point-blank-ban on it label.

Or let's make it even more fun - I'm on the boundaries of two LEAs - most employers here have staff who live in either of them. One's doing a much publicised switch to a five term year... so now, you end up with a situation where holidays are blocked not only in the traditional summer six weeks, but in the reformatted LEA's holidays which are increased at Christmas, Easter, "Blackberry" Week etc... exactly when are you allowed to take any holidays at all - oh no wait, you don't matter. Give them New Years' Eve because let's face it - they have no kids so are just hedonistic alchies who want to get ratted off their face (I stopped seeing the amusement in New Year when I was about 18 btw - can't stand it as an "event").

And yep, thegirlintheattic we got caught by the teacher trap ourselves for many years - people just looked point blank at my husband and told him no, no school holidays - and then the resident office harpies started bickering when he DID get annual leave granted then (large team of 30+ so not even massive issues regarding one key person at a time being allowed to be away)... Queen Harpie incidentally had a 15(if I recall correctly) year old kid - and had whined her way out of the compulsory (and mentioned as such when you signed a contract) one evening a week 7.30pm finish, out of the compulsory one Saturday a month work and still kicked up a stink that she wasn't being catered to when someone completely unrelated to her got allowed to take annual leave and spend it with his wife.

I see after I went to bed last night the personal insults continued to be thrown by one poster who refuses to accept anyone with no kids may possibly have any need to have holidays other than the ones she herself thinks they might want.

amus

Surely the issue is certain workplaces not being fair about distributing leave?

In my workplace people put in for their leave, inevitably parents generally put in for the school holidays, some people without kids also put in for dates which fall in the school hols for whatever reason.

There is a maximum amount of staff allowed off at any one time, if the amount of people who have put in for leave exceeds that amount, an e-mail is sent out to see if anyone can give up certain weeks. If not, peoples names are drawn out of a hat. Simple.

To be honest I do think some posters without kids do come across as being bitter about the fact that parents want these weeks off, of course they want these weeks off and are going to put in for them. People without kids have every right to also put in for these weeks. I suppose the bitterness emulates from offices not having a system to work out leave fairly. People with kids shouldnt be given automatic priority if people without children also want those weeks off.

Before I had kids I would try to avoid the school holidays wherever possible (cheaper hols and no screaming kids / usually better weather in May/Sept), that doesnt mean to say I never had cause to request a few days in the holidays sometimes. I dont see why people without kids would want to request time off in the school hols unless they had a specific reason to but thats just me.

lazer

I work in a factory - we have fixed holidays.

The husbands or wives or parents or children of people who work here may want to spend the holidays with them.
Are fixed holidays - are 1 week at easter, 1 at Christmas, 2 in the Summer and various bank holidays.

People may be maried to or friends with teachers, so want to holiday with them

People may not be able to afford a Foreign holiday - so will be holidaying in the UK- the better weather is in the summer months of School leave

People may be helping others look after Children during summer holidays

They may just fancy a week off a week off in the summer - as its half way through the year - if they take their 2 week break in October, it is a long period without a long break.

There is many reasons why people want time off without Children. The reason people want time off is irrelevant, everyone should get equal chance of booking any particular holiday

Janepig

coolcait wrote: »

Your post has a lot of indicators of personal preference (and you acknowledge that). Or other factors.

The part I've picked out illustrates that point further. Early to mid July is 'school summer holiday' time in Scotland.

If you were part of my team, in my part of the world, and had wanted to book holidays in early to mid July, I would have considered your application without any reference as to whether or not you were a parent.

Obviously I'm going by school terms in England and Wales, acknowledging that Scotland is slightly different.

And most people's opinion's are based on personal preference and also experience. I don't see anything wrong in that. My personal experience has been that my needs have been accommodated with no problem, I have never had to snipe, or biatch, or cause any problems, as I've pointed out in my previous posts. It does appear however that working parents (mothers in particular) have come in for another bashing on this thread (resident office harpies, queen harpie, your choice [to have children] your problem, and you yourself accused me of sounding selfish, arrogant and bitter for simply stating my case), whereas in my experience although I have always had no problem getting time off to coincide with my children being home, as with much about parenting, there is always the guilt trip you feel about taking the time off. Some of the biggest "lead swingers and moaners" I work with are the childless. But that's just my experience, and I can only speak from that. It seems that other posters on here work with parents who maybe have no sense of "give and take".

dizziblonde wrote: »

I see after I went to bed last night the personal insults continued to be thrown by one poster who refuses to accept anyone with no kids may possibly have any need to have holidays other than the ones she herself thinks they might want.

Wonder who you could be talking about?:rotfl::rotfl: Maybe I'm one of your famous "harpies".

lazer wrote: »

There is many reasons why people want time off without Children. The reason people want time off is irrelevant, everyone should get equal chance of booking any particular holiday

I thought of this last night. I used to work with someone who used to give chapter and verse with her leave requests and I always used to wonder why as it's (imo) nobody's business why she, or anyone else, wanted leave. When I put my leave requests in I do just that, I don't feel I have to explain why I want that time, neither do I expect my colleagues to either. Obviously we are sitting together and naturally discuss what dates/weeks we might want, and for instance if I'm looking to book a day for sports day or something similar, then I might mention it to see if anyone's got a problem with that particular day, but in general it shouldn't matter why someone needs that time off. Although I stand by what I would do, and that would be that I would rather see a parent have a school holiday off, than take it myself with no particular reason to do so.

Different LEA's have also been mentioned - where I work I have colleagues (and myself) with children in four different LEA's and that actually works out well as very often the holiday dates are different (particularly half terms) so you don't have all the parents clamouring for the same week off. But I can see how that might not please someone who works where there is an automatic "parents first" policy as it strings it out for longer.

Jx

HeatherintheHills

Janepig wrote: »

I thought of this last night. I used to work with someone who used to give chapter and verse with her leave requests and I always used to wonder why as it's (imo) nobody's business why she, or anyone else, wanted leave. When I put my leave requests in I do just that, I don't feel I have to explain why I want that time, neither do I expect my colleagues to either....

...Although I stand by what I would do, and that would be that I would rather see a parent have a school holiday off, than take it myself with no particular reason to do so.

Different LEA's have also been mentioned - where I work I have colleagues (and myself) with children in four different LEA's and that actually works out well as very often the holiday dates are different (particularly half terms) so you don't have all the parents clamouring for the same week off. But I can see how that might not please someone who works where there is an automatic "parents first" policy as it strings it out for longer.

Jx

Jane, the bold bits. On the one hand you say that people's reasons for taking leave are nobody else's business, but you seem to change your mind about that when it comes to those of us who do not have school age children if we choose to take leave "for no particular reason" during school holidays. That is a bit unfair isn't it?

The bit in italics. How on earth are non school age parents expected to keep track of the holidays of 4 different LEAs? Yet with your personal expectation of parents being given preferential treatment during school holiday times, anyone working with you would have to check all of that out before booking a holiday in order not to incur your wrath? That could extend the parental preference weeks to at least 18 weeks per year and that is a ridiculous expectation.

For the record I have also always tried to ensure parents I have worked with have been able to take the holidays they want and have changed my own bookings sometimes to help with that. Yet I have still been moaned at for booking leave (weeks in advance) on what turned out to be an inset day, because the parent "may" need to take the day off themselves! Now that kind of attitude gets right up my nose.