5:2 diet

murphydog999

I think the message is being lost here - big time!

The Horizon problem was about the researcher and his medical problems, and the benefits for his health. (Yes, losing weight does also have an impact on health.) But this guy was monitored/measured, before and 5 weeks after. There has been no follow-up, and we don't know if he continued or if his health is still improving.

The body takes at least 2 weeks to adjust to any new way of eating, so this isn't just a 'see how I feel in a couple of days' thing, it isn't a weight loss plan, it's not for playing about with every few days, it has to be a long-term decision if you have health concerns.

I am not being over-cautious by saying, your diet has got to be right in the first place - so although you are cutting out food, you are not cutting down on nutrients - and if you are obese, on medication, esp. for blood pressure or diabetes, or currently under a doctors supervision for any other condition, I suggest what you intend to do is run-by them first.

This isn't intended for anyone in-particular, but I'm seeing a worrying trend towards losing weight quickly, rather than a considered approach towards life-long health benefits.

~Chameleon~

murphydog999 wrote: »

I think the message is being lost here - big time!

The Horizon problem was about the researcher and his medical problems, and the benefits for his health. (Yes, losing weight does also have an impact on health.) But this guy was monitored/measured, before and 5 weeks after. There has been no follow-up, and we don't know if he continued or if his health is still improving.

The body takes at least 2 weeks to adjust to any new way of eating, so this isn't just a 'see how I feel in a couple of days' thing, it isn't a weight loss plan, it's not for playing about with every few days, it has to be a long-term decision if you have health concerns.

I am not being over-cautious by saying, your diet has got to be right in the first place - so although you are cutting out food, you are not cutting down on nutrients - and if you are obese, on medication, esp. for blood pressure or diabetes, or currently under a doctors supervision for any other condition, I suggest what you intend to do is run-by them first.

This isn't intended for anyone in-particular, but I'm seeing a worrying trend towards losing weight quickly, rather than a considered approach towards life-long health benefits.

I'm glad you've posted this as I felt my comments were mostly falling on deaf ears

lostinrates

murphydog999 wrote: »

I think the message is being lost here - big time!

The Horizon problem was about the researcher and his medical problems, and the benefits for his health. (Yes, losing weight does also have an impact on health.) But this guy was monitored/measured, before and 5 weeks after. There has been no follow-up, and we don't know if he continued or if his health is still improving.

The body takes at least 2 weeks to adjust to any new way of eating, so this isn't just a 'see how I feel in a couple of days' thing, it isn't a weight loss plan, it's not for playing about with every few days, it has to be a long-term decision if you have health concerns.

I am not being over-cautious by saying, your diet has got to be right in the first place - so although you are cutting out food, you are not cutting down on nutrients - and if you are obese, on medication, esp. for blood pressure or diabetes, or currently under a doctors supervision for any other condition, I suggest what you intend to do is run-by them first.

This isn't intended for anyone in-particular, but I'm seeing a worrying trend towards losing weight quickly, rather than a considered approach towards life-long health benefits.

There are already diets using intermittant fasting as both weightloss and life long benefits (e.g. I mentioned the juddd method).

There is also a school of thought, and i am sorry the name of it totally escapes me, of people who eat exceptionally micromananged very low calorie diets (not in the vlcd shake basis, but real food) who believe it makes them live longer etc. they in particular i find fascinating, its not a way i could live day in day out.

One of the key messages of the judd and intermittant fasting diets i have read about before is the supposed 'skinny gene' effect. imo asking people who need to consider their food choices to exclude that from their consideration is odd.


I am reasonably food aware, yet have got out of the habit of checking what i eat. By thinking aboutit in a more focused day to day i can see that yesterday (when i was not yet fasting) i ate too little for this plan to work for me as that being what under Johnson would be called an 'up day' and oo much to be a fast day. but ate too much sugar within that calorie alloawance to be healthy, i need to address that. Anything that helps me think bout how i can eat better and shift weight i consider valuable.

Eg. The protein issue i want to know more about.

~Chameleon~

lostinrates wrote: »

Eg. The protein issue i want to know more about.

This is something I'm currently looking into myself as it was suggested that eating too much protein behaved in a similar manner to high levels of IFG-1 by accelerating new cell growth, which is the complete opposite of what the fasting was hoping to achieve.

lostinrates

~Chameleon~ wrote: »

This is something I'm currently looking into myself as it was suggested that eating too much protein behaved in a similar manner to high levels of IFG-1 by accelerating new cell growth, which is the complete opposite of what the fasting was hoping to achieve.

If you find more please share it here. I do not eat low carb so its not quite the same concern for me as it might be for some who want to combine the too, but i do want to be making good food choices to help me. Doing something that hinders me inadvertantly would be rather foolish!

~Chameleon~

lostinrates wrote: »

If you find more please share it here. I do not eat low carb so its not quite the same concern for me as it might be for some who want to combine the too, but i do want to be making good food choices to help me. Doing something that hinders me inadvertantly would be rather foolish!

I certainly will, although I'm actually looking at excesses of protein, i.e. >2g/kg body weight which you'd usually see in athletes/bodybuilders etc. The RDA is less than half that for the average moderately active person.

jsygurl

sammyjammy wrote: »

I suspect its a mistype and she means a 1lb a week

Whoops! I so did mean a pound a week!

In the Horizon programme the guy lost over a stone in 5 weeks by restricting his calories to 600 twice a week. We don't know what calories he consumed the rest of the week, nor what activity he did. The woman who is having a trial of people alternating a day of normal eating with a day of a meal of 500-600 calories said that her records showed that those people ate about 110% of their maintenance calories on their normal eating day. She also said that the group on the alternate day 'fasting' had lost 5lb more by the end of 6 months than the control group on a more normal diet. This is not a hell of a lot of information to go on people! I was already on a traditional diet, and had researched how many calories to eat, so I adapted this way of eating within the calories that I had already decided to eat. I am drawn to eat this way by the way fasting can swiftly lower blood sugar and cholesterol (and as I said before as it makes it easier to eat out!), and am worried by the people who seem to think that this way of eating is a miracle weight loss programme.

I am also worried that people are asking me for food plans - what makes you think I know more than you? Would you ask someone you met on a bus? Why ask someone you meet on the internet?

If Michael Mosley had lost 5lbs, but had the same reduction in his blood sugar/cholesterol, I would most definitely have still chosen to try the way of eating - but I think that the fuss about this progrmme would have been a lot less.

kittykat500

This is a 2004 study, albeit on a very small cohort (18).

http://www.genomenewsnetwork.org/articles/2004/07/09/calorierestriction.php/

Interesting and backs up the Horizon programme.

Gloomendoom

jsygurl wrote: »

I am also worried that people are asking me for food plans - what makes you think I know more than you? Would you ask someone you met on a bus? Why ask someone you meet on the internet?

Precisely. I thought the whole point of this 5;2 thing, when used for weight loss, was that there was no need for a food plan. You just eat less of what you normally eat on the "fast" days and what you normally eat on the "normal" days. At the end of the week, you will have consumed less calories than usual and, because the intermittent nature of the fasting, your body does not go into starvation mode, so you will lose weight.

Generally, skinny people live longer. How many fat 90 year olds do you see?

murphydog999

~Chameleon~ wrote: »

This is something I'm currently looking into myself as it was suggested that eating too much protein behaved in a similar manner to high levels of IFG-1 by accelerating new cell growth, which is the complete opposite of what the fasting was hoping to achieve.

Exactly, what is a high protein diet? At what level does it become high? Is it based on 'complete' protein, or all proteins?

Men, women, the elderly, sportspeople, all have different requirements, there is no 1 size fits all.