A harsh punishment or fair enough?

Sambucus_Nigra

susancs wrote: »

I respect the fact you have experience with adults who have been bullied in the work place, but in my experience young children's behaviour can be modified with the right education.

I'm sure it can. Like using an experience to learn about how other people interact

I have plenty of experience not just with adults. I'm not here applying for a job though, so I was using one example where the very concerned party could quite easily look up a reference without leaving their chair.

I currently work with quite severely handicapped and abused kids - and my first question to all of them when they talk about their latest experience and scrape is 'what have you learnt from that?' - often we don't ask people that enough. Alot of the time, they do understand what's going on around them they just never think of it as impacting on them in the way it has. It can be quite revealing to them.

peachyprice

Cat501 wrote: »

I don't understand this at all I don't see how being cynical/streetwise stops you being bullied. You can be as suspicious of people's motives as you like - doesn't mean they're not still going to attempt to take the p***....:(

I think I must be being more than a little obtuse....:/

It does make a difference.

Bullies pick on people they know they are going to be able to upset or a rise out of, if you don't react the way they expect or if you give as good as you get you are less likely to be bullied by them again. Bullies by their very nature pick on the weakest.

It's a tough but valuable lesson for a child to learn.

NewKittenHelp

peachyprice wrote: »

It does make a difference.

Bullies pick on people they know they are going to be able to upset or a rise out of, if you don't react the way they expect or if you give as good as you get you are less likely to be bullied by them again. Bullies by their very nature pick on the weakest.

It's a tough but valuable lesson for a child to learn.

That doesn't seem to be the case here, nor in a lot of cases. It just seems another way of subtly blaming the victims for their perceived weakness.

poet123

I do see where you are coming from, and I agree it can be good to ask "what have you learned from that" but not asking does not negate the learning curve. Who amongst us has not learned from any experience if we really analyse it? I would take it as a given that any child would learn from being in such a situation.

I think that people were taking issue with your streetwise comment, which could be seen as a criticism, and also something that was beyond the age of the child.

Spendless

Sambucus_Nigra wrote: »

My point is that I suggested it be used as a learning experience and the OP came back at me in bold, capitals and underlined with a statement that she was very proud of the way her daughter handled the situation.

And is it this that seems to have got your goat? Yes, I am PROUD that my DD when faced with someone saying to their face 'I really don't like you' responds by saying 'Do you think I don't realise that'. That's neither punching the child in the face, being rude to them or bursting into tears. In other words she didn't give them a reaction. Yes, they carried on doing it. It involved 2/3rds of the girls in her class against her on her own. I can't remember exact figures but assumming that 1/2 of a class of 30 are girls around 10 kids doing stuff to 1. Actually I think my DD is more savvy than you give her credit for so I am going to take a leaf out of her book and

Spendless wrote: »

she said she ignored because 'she only does it for attention'.

As we are going round in circles and I have already asked you to agree to disagree.

Sambucus_Nigra

poet123 wrote: »

I do see where you are coming from, and I agree it can be good to ask "what have you learned from that" but not asking does not negate the learning curve. Who amongst us has not learned from any experience if we really analyse it? I would take it as a given that any child would learn from being in such a situation.

I think that people were taking issue with your streetwise comment, which could be seen as a criticism, and also something that was beyond the age of the child.

I can't think of any other way of describing being slightly more clued up on human behaviour at school than calling it 'more streetwise'.

Or more savvy.

I actually initially said 'less gullible and a bit more savvy' I never mentioned cynical - the OP did and I responded 'There is a difference between being cynical and a bit more streetwise'.

I didn't recommend selling drugs up Tottenham Ct Road!

jellyhead

I don't know if I'd have learned anything from it at that age ... maybe to avoid that particular child but it wouldn't have changed my rose-tinted tree-hugging view of the world. I would still expect everyone except that person to be lovely.

I probably still believed in the tooth fairy at age 9

Cat501

NewKittenHelp wrote: »

That doesn't seem to be the case here, nor in a lot of cases. It just seems another way of subtly blaming the victims for their perceived weakness.

I agree, it's certainly not always the case. I was bullied, mainly for my appearance. At various times I ignored it, told them to p*** off, or retaliated with a put-down. I certainly never showed them my tears. Did it stop them? Did it heck.

Saturnalia

No, it's not 100%. In some cases if you don't react, the bullies get bored and back off, looking for someone else who is easier to upset. But in other cases, they will carry on jabbing until you finally do snap, then they learn that to get what they want, they have to call you the same name 20 times, then they'll call you it 25 times the next da y. Other bullies will escalate it to even worse words or deeds if what they are doing now isn't getting a reaction.

Same as the adult equivalent of bumping into an idiot while out, do you ignore them and hope they go away, or will that further infuriate them?

shellsuit

amus wrote: »

I was in exactly the same position as your DD in my first few years of high school. She always made me feel like she was the one with all the friends and if she fell out with me I would have nobody.

One day in a lesson when she accused me of 'bumming' another girl I was friendly with I just cracked and had a massive go at her. I told her I would be friends with whoever the hell I wanted and if she didnt like it she could !!!! off.

From then on in she never said a word to me and it turned out all the other girls didnt fall out with me, and in the end everyone caught on to what a 'psycho' she was.

Is there anyone else your daughter is friendly with who she knows wont fall out with her if she falls out with this friend? Im sorry to say, it sounds cliche, but the only thing that 'broke' this cycle for me was finally standing up to her and telling her where to go.

It all seems so silly now at the age of 26, I wonder how or why the hell I put up with that for so many years, but you forget how hard that age is when you're not yet able to see things from an adult perspective, and think if you stand up for yourself the whole world will be against you.

Believe me, I've told her time and time again to get tough and tell the girl where to get off, but she won't!

It annoys me even more, because I've seen her when she loses her rag at home over something trivial, but she won't lose her rag with someone who is causing her life a misery at times?

They're speaking again at the moment, but I know it won't be long before it all kicks off again because daughter has done something brat doesn't like, or has gone and done something with someone else!

Spendless wrote: »

That was the only thing I could think of to suggest to you shellsuit. Is she going into yr 10? Is it possible she'll come across other people as she takes her options rather than her current crowd.

Yes, she's going into Year 10 this year, so hopefully she will gain some new friends and finally tell brat child to shove off!