A harsh punishment or fair enough?

amus

Saturnalia wrote: »

Why, because I know, having learnt through experience at an early age, that some kids ARE capable of being that devious, and that some adults are easily manipulated by them?


Or because I don't like seeing innocent people getting into trouble because of someone else's lies? (I'm talking about my own schooldays here, not OPs story or any of the kids in it) If that makes me unpleasant, make me a badge & I'll wear it with pride.

Im pretty child C wasnt lying? The false invitation was made by child B and handed to child A.

Yes children are devious, and you may have a point if child C had ran off and told an untrue tale about child A or B, but as far as I can see this was not the case.

Janepig

Kids who carry tales can be as bad as the kids who have been deemed to have misbehaved. DD's got one in particular in her class who will persuade her "friends" to do something naughty with the express intention of telling on them and enjoying the fall out.

I remember her telling me that DD had been given a row for saying a swear word in school (when she was about 5 or 6). It was obviously something so minor that the teacher hadn't felt the need to bring it up with me and DD is generally well behaved anyway (I've yet to be called in and she's in Yr 5 in September). Needless to say that DD was horrified that her friend had told on her and I was as cross with her friend for being so horrible as I was with DD for the original bad behaviour (more probably).

Her little sister is turning out much the same - she came running up to me a while back to tell me about something DS's best friend had done in school (and had gone to the headmaster for) but again it was something not deemed problematical enough for the school to mention to his mother. So I told her to stop carrying tales.

I agree that if a child sees something that's genuinely bullying behaviour then of course they should speak up, but I really can't stand little snitches.

Jx

Spendless

Okay, I asked DD why Child C told teacher and got the reply 'because she likes getting Child B into trouble whilst at the same time pretending to be sticking up for me' As I struggled to get my head round this I asked DD to explain more, but she wasn't able to articulate what she meant (understandably since she's 9) but my interpretation was she doesn't totally trust Child C as she flits between the groups.

I also asked when she was given the invite why she didn't just say 'I know that's fake'. She had realised instantly - that's a question that came up and I didn't know - because the child star's name was spelt incorrectly -but she said the bell rang for them to go to lunch and they have to go and line up in alphabetical order so there wasn't chance. My own feeling is my DD tried to ignore it knowing it wasn't true. I think this because though the bullying has pretty much stopped, there still remains the odd incident. Which, if teacher has found out she has reprimanded the culprit(s).

A few days earlier the ringleader of the bullying had told my DD she was trying to put a file in her drawer the wrong way round which is why my DD couldn't get it to fit. DD can be a bit 'air in the clouds' and not always logical minded, so it took a few goes before she realised what she said and turned the folder round. Ring leader then said 'Congratualations, you have managed to put a folder in a drawer'. When I asked DD what her reaction was because ringleader had gone from being helpful to being sarcastic, she said she ignored because 'she only does it for attention'. My own view is that she took the same approach with the child that had written the fake invite. There is also the possibility of dissappointment, that a child she had played with for a few days and she thought was now a friend turned out to be a fake one.

This thread was never about whether I should approach teacher about it, it was more to clarify my thoughts about me and my husband having differring views about it. I can now see where my husband was coming from and thank people for helping me see that.

GobbledyGook

I don't know if it helps in any way Spendless, but this sort of thing is so, so common.

Little girls can be completely and utterly horrible to each other. Often when people think of the word bully they think of a bigger boy picking on a smaller boy, but in my experience more often in situations involving any sort of bullying or unpleasant behaviour there is girls (or a girl) heavily involved in it.

Sometimes it's hard to see what is bullying and what is not because they can be thoroughly unpleasant to each other. Especially with telling tales and using that to pick on one child and to try and make another feel like they owe them something.

No-one other than Child B really knows the true intention of the invitation. It's not necessarily going to be nasty - my daughter made her sister an invitation to the royal wedding. Not nasty - just fun. However it could also be something very mean.

It's good that they'll be separated next year because even if their intentions are good there is no trust in them for your daughter, entirely understandably, so not having them about will be better. Just keep a very close eye on how much contact they still have. In some schools being in different classes mean they'll see each other hardly any, but in others they'll be together for assemblies, special events, break time, lunch time etc and that can cause different problems.

notakid

I think you have been very kind to child B. I'd have been punching the air that the teacher had seen tho such behaviour and punished her, I'm glad you have been brought round to your husbands view!

It's funny tho, children and power games. My daughter had a very uncomfortable primary school years and always felt on the edge of any group tho thru her senior years became very popular in the geeky crowd but then I found out that she and her friends had been excluding a girl

I found out that said girl didn't even go to the prom.:(

Its never as simple as victim and bully, sometimes the roles swap. You would think that if you had been the victim of bullying you should be more compassionate but it doesn't seem the case. When I asked my daughter why she couldn't give the other girl some leeway she replied that she had modified her behaviour to be liked and didn't understand why other girl couldn't. I pointed out her own brothter, who because of his ASD is always saying the wrong thing and tends to be treated shabbily but always treats others with respect.

Maybe its in some of us. The thrill of having power over someone else.:(

charlieismydarling

Child B sounds vile and if (tiny chance) her intentions were not nasty then she may well have learnt a valuable lesson.

That is, since she has been a bully in the past, then that reputation will follow her through her school career and that she will need to modify her own behaviour to allow for this and not behave in a way that could be interpreted as unpleasant, or bullying in any way.

These are the consequences of the original unpleasant behaviour towards the op's dd. I hope the teacher used that opportunity to explain that to her.

jellyhead

Spendless wrote: »

From then on it became acceptable to isolate and exclude DD from a social group of 2/3rds of the girls in her form. Incidences include shuffling away from her in assembly if they ahve to sit near her and telling her to her face on more than 1 occassion that 'I really don't like you'.

That's horrible :eek: I can see why the teacher punished child B. It wasn't really much of a punishment so I wouldn't worry about it being too harsh. It's possible that the teacher thought the incident wasn't as serious as it could have been, and made the punishment quite lenient as a result.

If child B truly wasn't being horrid then maybe child A can be friendly with her during the holidays and sort it all out.

If you think the punishment was harsh, there may be factors you don't know about as has been said, such as child C knowing that child A was being set up, or perhaps the teacher knew of other incidents that child B had been involved in.

My only experience of 9 year old girls is from watching 'Outnumbered', and there were times I could have cried for Karen when other girls were being cliquey, I'm such a wuss

Spendless

jellyhead wrote: »

That's horrible :eek: I can see why the teacher punished child B. It wasn't really much of a punishment so I wouldn't worry about it being too harsh. It's possible that the teacher thought the incident wasn't as serious as it could have been, and made the punishment quite lenient as a result.

If child B truly wasn't being horrid then maybe child A can be friendly with her during the holidays and sort it all out.

If you think the punishment was harsh, there may be factors you don't know about as has been said, such as child C knowing that child A was being set up, or perhaps the teacher knew of other incidents that child B had been involved in.

My only experience of 9 year old girls is from watching 'Outnumbered', and there were times I could have cried for Karen when other girls were being cliquey, I'm such a wuss

I have been quite surprised/shocked how 1 event with 1 girl rippled so much to involve so many. :eek::( Unless the children come across each other at the local park then I don't think they'll meet in the school hols. They don't mix out of school. In Sept they are in diff classes, and IME so far the children tend to just play with the friends of that class. DD is going into her class with her best friend and a couple of other girls that she was friendly with during the infant years, that she'd been in the opposite class to since then.

aliasojo wrote: »

It's a Scottish word that means 'telling on someone'.

I often used to tell my brother 'I'm going to clipe on you if you do that to me again'. Much to my Mother's chagrin.

I just knew there was a reason I thought you'd be helpful on this thread.

Sambucus_Nigra

You aren't going to really know whether child B was just teasing or going to humiliate your DD, or whether child C was - well - doing the same in another way.

I'd use this as a learning opportunity to show your DD how to be a bit less gullible and a bit more savvy on what might be playing out in front of her eyes.

If she was to be handing out a punishment to either of the other two - who would she hand it out to and why?

shellsuit

Girls can be evil wicked wenches when they want to be.

My daughter has a friend she's been friends with since pre school.

They were really close then all of a sudden, my daughter couldn't do anything with anyone else, or her 'friend' would fall out with her and moan at her.

Because 'friend' was upset, she told their circle of girls that my daughter had upset her, so they all decided to fall out with my daughter.

This didn't happen the once, it's happened about 3 or 4 times now.

New Years Eve just gone, (DD's bday is NYD) daughter asked me if another friend could stay, so I said Yes.

Because 'friend' wasn't invited she got the hump with my daughter, fell out with her, told her that she didn't know why she bothered to buy her a Christmas present and that she wanted it back.

The reason she wasn't invited is because I don't want the brat at this house but the girls didn't know this. My daughter told her that I'd said she could only have 1 friend to stay and she'd asked someone else. 'friend' didn't like this and went on and on. I was fuming, because like I said to my daughter, it's my bloody house and I say who stays here!

The girls are 14 and many a time my daughters been in tears because all the girls have fallen out with her, just because my daughter has decided to do something with someone else!

The last time it was because my daughter wanted to go to a lunchtime music lesson, and have her lunch with one of her boy friends (not like that, he's gay).

Well, 'friend' didn't like that, asked daughter why she'd jibbed her off (went off with someone else), caused a big scene and all the girls fell out with my daughter again.

I've told her time and time again that she must do what SHE wants to do, go where SHE wants to go, and be with who SHE wants to be with, and not freaking jump when bratchild says jump.

I wouldn't mind, but bratchilds family are decent, catholic people. Bratchilds Mum is a teacher in the junior school !!!!!!!

I tear my hair out sometimes, because I can't go to the school (DD begged me not to) or they would all know and fall out with DD even more.

I can't speak to brats parents, because they will speak to brat, brat will take it out on my daughter and everyone won't speak to her again.

It's so bloody upsetting and frustrating and I've told my daughter to stay the hell away from them all because they are NOT friends, but it's a big circle of them and she only has a couple of other lads (both gay) who she hangs around with.

The brat is controlling her, its bullying when they all fall out with her and b!tch on BBM or FB, I'm just at a loss at what to do because I don't want to see my daughter upset but I don't want to make things worse.