Trial beauty kit costs £57.95

lili2008

dalesrider wrote: »

VAU (Visa Account Updater)

This is a system put in place by them (Mastercard have one too). This allows retailers processing CPA to simply request the new card details and transfer the payment to it.

Thanks

Can I also ask you, if I close the account completely and transfer to another bank, can they still come after me to try to take more payments?

My biggest nightmare is this going on and on with me having to raise endless disputes and having loads of money taken. I'd rather be with a helpful bank if mine won't.

Also, will copies of emails stating that I cancelled the deal and withdrew authorisation immediately be enough to 'win' a dispute?

My bank is more than aware of what's gone on so far but as yet have not put me through to disputes. They say they can't do this til a payment has been made (as yet, only £3.95 the P&P which I accept, it is further payments I have written to forbid). They also say the payment doesn't appear as a Continuous authority, just as a one-off payment, but in the circs, that sounds a bit too good to be true.

dalesrider

lili2008 wrote: »

Thanks

Can I also ask you, if I close the account completely and transfer to another bank, can they still come after me to try to take more payments?

Yes the bank could... Chase you for the money. But given you have already informed them that it is cancelled its is highly unlikely. As they have the right to return the payment ot the company.
Far to extream measure to take over this matter.

lili2008 wrote: »

My biggest nightmare is this going on and on with me having to raise endless disputes and having loads of money taken. I'd rather be with a helpful bank if mine won't.

From experiance (more than enough of these companies :mad: )
Many do not debit if you cancel and return. Even if they do it only tens to be for maybe 2 payments. Its costs them for every chargeback and is also highlighting their poor accounting to visa/master card. Too many chargebacks and they can lose their licence to use card payments.

lili2008 wrote: »

Also, will copies of emails stating that I cancelled the deal and withdrew authorisation immediately be enough to 'win' a dispute?

If they reject the chargeback. Yes.

lili2008 wrote: »

My bank is more than aware of what's gone on so far but as yet have not put me through to disputes. They say they can't do this til a payment has been made (as yet, only £3.95 the P&P which I accept, it is further payments I have written to forbid). They also say the payment doesn't appear as a Continuous authority, just as a one-off payment, but in the circs, that sounds a bit too good to be true.

I would be surprised if any bank is not aware of this....

They are right no action can be taken till they take further payments.
These payments do not tend to show as a CPA, but are treated in exactly the same way.

As I have told many a lady over the last few years. Do not worry. You have the full backing of your bank now to support you.
Your bank are on your side and will do all they can to support you.

lili2008

Thanks so much for taking the time to reply Dalesrider, that's comforting news.

I've made it clear that although, yes, I gave them the details, iI consider the company to use false advertising and that the T&Cs are unclear and unreasonable. I think it's hard to disagree with that. I've also made it crystal clear that I've cancelled any further transactions and forbidden them to take money. Taken shots of the website areas where I've stipulated no auto refills etc.

I really hope the bank will be on my side.

theytakeliberties

Further to my last post, as Distance Selling Regulations can be quite complicated, on refection I’d simply stick to the following, avoiding all extraneous detail about returning products and contracts, and what a bunch of toerags they are.

1. If further amounts have not been taken then

Email them saying “Please be advised that no further amounts are to be taken from credit card ending in xxxx that I used.”

If they do, then send a copy of the email to the credit card card company
asking for a chargeback on the clear grounds that the further amount was not authorised from that card. (You are not here getting involved in whether you owed the company that amount.)

2. If further amounts have been taken and you hadn’t contacted them previously then

Request a chargeback from the credit card company on the ground that only the first amount was authorised.


If the credit card company start waffling about repeat billing contracts and don’t refund the amount then write back saying that the validity of the alleged repeat billing contract is disputed, that it is up to a court to decide on whether money is owed, and that even a court does not require payment to a creditor by credit card, and that unless they refund the amount you will hold them liable for negligence and refer the matter to the Ombudsman.

If the company ask you to return the product, write back saying you note their desire to receive back the product and that they are welcome to arrange collection or if they prefer, to send a prepaid postage bag back for its return.

If the company say that a chargeback request constitutes credit card fraud then they are committing criminal offences, such as under Section 40 of the Aministration of Justice Act. Unfortunately, as we know, criminals can easily operate in broad daylight these days and get away with it.

Now because of difficulties some have had I’m writing to Barclaycard on my account as follows:

Thank you for your letter advisng that two amounts of £87.95 have been refunded

Thank you also for advising me on repeat billing contracts in your letter.

However, please relay to your chargeback team the following:

1. It is up to cardholders to expressly authorise amounts taken from their account, not for merchants to provide themselves with implicit authorisation to do so, whether through trickery or through unclear websites.

2. If a cardholder advises that an amount was not authorised to be taken from an account, it is up to the credit card company to refund that amount not to assess the validity of contracts and to perform the role of a court

3. Although it is not the place of credit card companies to assess the validity of contracts, I would add that it is certainly not a breach of any contract for a cardholder to subsequently withdraw card authorisation, when explicitly and knowingly given, particularly given the law on legal tender.

4. This particular company has engaged in multiple criminal offences, including under the Administration of Justice Act when it has harassed some cardholders claiming (falsely of course) that if they dispute any charge the cardholder will be comitting credit card fraud.

5 I regret the lack of regulation in banking that has permitted the continuing use of Visa Merchant accounts by disreputable companies and directors.

This message is also being published at
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=60086467

lizziebabe

Way Hay :T I got my £97.95 refunded.

I contacted my bank and we are ending the dispute.

I am a Happy Easter Bunny :EasterBun

dalesrider

theytakeliberties wrote: »

2. If further amounts have been taken and you hadn’t contacted them previously then

Request a chargeback from the credit card company on the ground that only the first amount was authorised.


If the credit card company start waffling about repeat billing contracts and don’t refund the amount then write back saying that the validity of the alleged repeat billing contract is disputed, that it is up to a court to decide on whether money is owed, and that even a court does not require payment to a creditor by credit card, and that unless they refund the amount you will hold them liable for negligence and refer the matter to the Ombudsman.

Only basis these transaction can be disputed is unrecognised... There is NO chargeback for unauthorised.
On such basis it will be rejected by the company and you will be redebited on the basis.
That you agreed to the T/C by ticking the box. (they send system copies, to prove this)
By sending a copy of these T/C with the auto refill section.
Also that if you do not cancel within the 14 days and return the goods. You get charged the FULL price for the trial product.

Ombudsman, will support the card provider on this matter.

If you wish to go the court on this. That is your legal right. But this has nothing to do with the card provider as they do not work under DSR. They have to work under the Visa/Mastercard/Amex regulations.

The whole reason card providers will/do not action these is they know they will be rejected and the card holder redebited. It is simply not fair to do this.

dalesrider

lizziebabe wrote: »

Way Hay :T I got my £97.95 refunded.

I contacted my bank and we are ending the dispute.

I am a Happy Easter Bunny :EasterBun

Remember the retailer has 45 days to contest.... So hold on the easter egg purchases.

lili2008

dalesrider wrote: »

Only basis these transaction can be disputed is unrecognised... There is NO chargeback for unauthorised.
On such basis it will be rejected by the company and you will be redebited on the basis.
That you agreed to the T/C by ticking the box. (they send system copies, to prove this)
By sending a copy of these T/C with the auto refill section.
Also that if you do not cancel within the 14 days and return the goods. You get charged the FULL price for the trial product.

Ombudsman, will support the card provider on this matter.

If you wish to go the court on this. That is your legal right. But this has nothing to do with the card provider as they do not work under DSR. They have to work under the Visa/Mastercard/Amex regulations.

The whole reason card providers will/do not action these is they know they will be rejected and the card holder redebited. It is simply not fair to do this.

However, according to the Guardian article cited in this thread, the card holder has the right to tell the bank not to issue any payments. Surely this means that it's the company that has to take the payer to court, not the bank, and the bank simply has to act onthe instructions of the account holder.

And if you have proof that you've checked the 'do not send automatic refills' box, then if the company attempts to send any further products other than the initial trial, this becomes an unrecognised payment.

I can just about swallow the one rip-off payment if it happens (although I have proof of correspondence sent to them long before the dispatch email, telling them not to send it and that I don't authorise any payment). My nightmare is they keep on trying to send more and keep debiting. In correspondence with the bank, I've told them I've ticked the 'send no further product' box and taken screen shots. I hope this will be sufficient.

This must be so common, the banks must be onto it somehow.

lili2008

Oh, and I've already had the 'take these products at a reduced price and we're sorry to see you go' email from them. This is hopefully further proof, if necessary, that any further payments are unrecognised.

Fact is, it's impossible to send these products securely back to a PO Box in Israel. They clearly weren't sent from Israel and it's an unfair condition of business to expect someone to send them back there. So it's fairly impossible to cancel this 'trial'.

lili2008

I see people from DS marketing came on here and posted. Since been removed for breeching site rules, but can someone summarise what they said and whether any of it was helpful. Can tell me by PM if necessary. Thanks.