Allowance for clothes

Cat501

poet123 wrote: »

I think the operative word here is child. Where do you draw the line? So, dressing as a Goth is OK at 11, is dressing provocatively also ok? All clothes send out messages, my take is that children should look like children and not be allowed to dress in a manner that means people make assumptions about them from the off.

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I'm not offended by what you've said, we're all different! And I hope you won't be offended by what I'm about to say (though I fear you might be! )

What message do Goth clothes send out - in your view?

If anyone was going to make any assumptions about her, I'd have HOPED it would purely be admiration that she was expressing her individuality.. however I'm not naive (and neither was she even at that age) and realise that a lot of people are narrow minded and will make negative assumptions about a person based on their choice of attire. I'm afraid we don't worry about what these people think, and prefer to care about the opinions of people who see the person behind the clothes!

I guess I really don't see it as THAT extreme

eta she's now 17, has had quite a few tattoos in the last year, being well aware of the permanence of them (not that unusual at that age regardless of the law - tbh she could have been married at that age up here and I know what I'd prefer lol) and a few facial piercings she's had since she was 14 or 15.

poet123

Cat501 wrote: »

I'm not offended by what you've said, we're all different! And I hope you won't be offended by what I'm about to say (though I fear you might be! )

What message do Goth clothes send out - in your view?

If anyone was going to make any assumptions about her, I'd have HOPED it would purely be admiration that she was expressing her individuality.. however I'm not naive (and neither was she even at that age) and realise that a lot of people are narrow minded and will make negative assumptions about a person based on their choice of attire. I'm afraid we don't worry about what these people think, and prefer to care about the opinions of people who see the person behind the clothes!

I guess I really don't see it as THAT extreme

eta she's now 17, has had quite a few tattoos in the last year, being well aware of the permanence of them (not that unusual at that age regardless of the law - tbh she could have been married at that age up here and I know what I'd prefer lol) and a few facial piercings she's had since she was 14 or 15.

I am not at all offended.

The message is that I want to be seen as different, which is no bad thing until someone takes offence, and decides to single them out for attention, which at such a young age they are unable to deal with. There have been quite few cases of extreme bullying of kids who are Goth, and I wouldn't have wanted my child to have to be prepared to cope with that at 11.

I was right in that it seems your daughter has progressed down the route of individualism to go on to have tattoos and piercings before the age the law allows. It usually is the case. Obviously, it was your call as a parent, but I can tell you that having these will limit her in choices of career and opportunities.

I lecture in a college and those kids we find hardest to place in a work experience arena have these kinds of things going on. Most of them lovely kids, but, and again, I fear I will offend, they have not been helped by parents allowing such extreme and permanent life choices at an early age.

Some of them are unemployable in their chosen fields, yes, it is harsh, but it is the reality.

Individualism often comes at a price.

Dunroamin

Cat501 wrote: »

eta she's now 17, has had quite a few tattoos in the last year, being well aware of the permanence of them (not that unusual at that age regardless of the law - tbh she could have been married at that age up here and I know what I'd prefer lol) and a few facial piercings she's had since she was 14 or 15.

I'm afraid that this really proves the point that was being made that if children are dressing in an extreme fashion when very young then they'll be doing permanent damage to their bodies at an unacceptable age.

I'm afraid you've shot yourself in the foot.

jayII

poet123 wrote: »

I was right in that it seems your daughter has progressed down the route of individualism to go on to have tattoos and piercings before the age the law allows. It usually is the case. Obviously, it was your call as a parent, but I can tell you that having these will limit her in choices of career and opportunities.

I lecture in a college and those kids we find hardest to place in a work experience arena have these kinds of things going on. Most of them lovely kids, but, and again, I fear I will offend, they have not been helped by parents allowing such extreme and permanent life choices at an early age.

Some of them are unemployable in their chosen fields, yes, it is harsh, but it is the reality.

Individualism often comes at a price.

Exactly!

I know that I couldn't get a job in my profession if I had facial piercings or obvious tattoos and I have made my children aware that these things can seriously limit career choices.

Cat501

Piercings can be taken out!

And the tattoos can be covered up. With sleeves, none would be visible. Anyhow, I don't really see her going into any profession which would take a dim view of them

poet123

Cat501 wrote: »

Piercings can be taken out!

And the tattoos can be covered up. With sleeves, none would be visible. Anyhow, I don't really see her going into any profession which would take a dim view of them

They can be taken out, but they leave really unsightly holes which are obvious, unless they are taken out for good.

That rules out the majority of professions then, which is a bit sad at 17. What area does she hope to work in?

Kimberley82

poet123 wrote: »

They can be taken out, but they leave really unsightly holes which are obvious, unless they are taken out for good.

That rules out the majority of professions then, which is a bit sad at 17. What area does she hope to work in?

Most? really?

I have a lot of friends with tattoos and piercings and they hold down a huge range of jobs including teacher, teachers assistant, social worker, nurses and lawyers

I agree some jobs are a no go but not all

aliasojo

Kimberley82 wrote: »

I have a lot of friends with tattoos and piercings and they hold down a huge range of jobs including teacher, teachers assistant, social worker, nurses and lawyers

Teachers and lawyers with facial piercings?

jayII

Cat501 wrote: »

Piercings can be taken out!

And the tattoos can be covered up. With sleeves, none would be visible. Anyhow, I don't really see her going into any profession which would take a dim view of them

Many uniforms only have short sleeves. Take a hospital for example, doctor's scrubs and nurses uniforms have short sleeves to reduce cross-infection. Or what about law, accountancy and many other higher paid professions? I can imagine that many young people would be pretty unhappy at having to wear long sleeved tops all the time at work.

I'm not saying it's impossible, just that having permanent, overt body art can be very limiting career-wise and many young people don't realise this until it's too late. It is up to us as parents to educate them, to ensure they are aware of all the long term implications of their choices before the deeds are done.

Facial piercings are even harder to hide.

Cat501

Dunroamin wrote: »

I'm afraid you've shot yourself in the foot.

In what way? What is unacceptable to some is perfectly acceptable to others. And we do not see it as "damage"

And perhaps, just perhaps, it's the judgemental attitude taken by some employers we should be challenging and not the way people dress. I'd happily back anyone in a fight as far as it could be taken to have the right to wear piercings/have tattoos in a workplace, except in the case of clear health and safety risks. I see it as no different to any other jewellery. Who'd want an employer who values appearances over ability anyway?? Oh well, things do change over time - at one time it wouldn't have been acceptable for a woman to wear trousers to work, and I sincerely hope this is one of the things which will change in time. I believe it will be

Poet, she'll probably go into child care. She did work experience in a nursery a couple of years ago and her piercings weren't an issue.

Individualism may come at a price - for now - but I believe blind conformity comes at a higher one!