Taken to court by grandparent - advice please

Penny-Pincher!!

With Cafcass, they will literally contact you right at the last minute but would already have done background checks on all parties involved which will include usually looking into any police involvement, major health concerns, social services and any other governmental departments which they deem relevant. Are they interviewing the child at all? You will receive a copy of their findings which will be sent to all parties involved.

Like I said, note down all dates and times that you've tried to make contact with them as they have been known to fabricate the truth and state that the person has been unwilling or non-compliant etc.

BitterAndTwisted

spacegirlfive wrote: »

Thanks everyone, lots of useful advice here - but I am really trying to find out:

Does the judge have a right to reveal my personal medical details in court?
And is there any point in requesting an adjournment because CAFCASS may not have the report completed in time?

Thanks all.

Haven't you already asked for an adjournment? Asking for another may not be looked upon particularly favourably by the court. You have been asked to attend to answer a case brought against you and you have a responsibility to attend and put your side before the court or I fear that you may risk them coming to a decision not based on hearing about your wishes.

I cannot advise you about whether you can ask the court to read your submission without disclosing the contents to the other side but I suspect you may not, if they think the information in it is pertinent.

My own feeling is that you may be focussing on the wrong things here, things which may not necessarily be in your own best interests or those of your children. I feel all of your best interests would be served by attending and telling the court in words of one syllable exactly why you decided to sever contact with your mother and precisely why you do not believe she would be a positive influence on them or their future well-being.

jellyhead

From what I remember of a court case that a friend went through, isn't the CAFCASS report sent to everyone involved? In which case it will state that you've just had a baby, if you adjourn things until after the baby is born?

Sorry I can't help, but just wondered about this aspect of things. There may not be any benefit in adjourning of the CAFCASS report will state that you have another child.

RuthG

Had lots of experience with CAFCASS. I suggest you ring their office and ask them if it is their intention to have a report completed in time for the hearing. Explain that you have not yet had your first appointment and that if they are going to do a report, they only have x weeks/days or whatever. If they say they will do the report in time, then that is fine. The length of time waiting for CAFCASS reports is not how long it takes to do the report, but is how long it takes them to appoint an officer. Care cases take precedence, so private law cases get pushed onto the back burner, until an officer becomes available. As someone has already said, they may contact you at the last minute; it only takes a couple of weeks actually to compile a report usually.

If their answer is unsatisfactory, you can write to the court, remembering to include your case number, and explain to the Judge that you have been in contact with CAFCASS and it appears unlikely that the report will be completed in time. Therefore you are requesting an adjournment so that you dont have to take a day off work unnecessarily.

As to the letter from your GP, usually the other side is entitled to know everything that is presented to the court. There are exceptions to this, usually in relation to domestic violence and even then the allegations of DV have to have been tested in court before privacy is allowed. It will be very difficult to keep it private and the judge might insist you let him/her know what the medical issue is (they dont like secrecy).

It wont result in another case; but if your mother wishes contact with Baby #2 any additional application will be part of the current procedings. If the court is minded to agree contact for child #1, then they will also probably allow contact with child #2.

I suggest you concentrate on presenting a case that shows why it would not be in either child's best interests to have contact with this person. It may mean washing your dirty linen in public and a finding of fact hearing might occur, where they test whether or not on the basis of probability (not beyond reasonable doubt) the allegations occurred. If you want any further help, by all means PM me. I have worked in the family courts for several years (stopped doing so recently) as a McKenzie friend. I may be able to put you in touch with someone in your area who could help you.

Somerset

BitterAndTwisted wrote: »

Haven't you already asked for an adjournment? Asking for another may not be looked upon particularly favourably by the court.

spacegirlfive wrote: »

We have already attended court once but it was adjourned as CAFCASS had not managed to compile a report on the case in time.

The OP attended Court. The adjournement was down to CAFCASS.

I have absolutely no knowledge about the subject matter, but I would have thought it inevitable the OP's mother will find out about the second child ....... so the same situation is going to be have to be faced sooner or later.

spacegirlfive

BitterAndTwisted wrote: »

Haven't you already asked for an adjournment? Asking for another may not be looked upon particularly favourably by the court.

My own feeling is that you may be focussing on the wrong things here, things which may not necessarily be in your own best interests or those of your children. I feel all of your best interests would be served by attending and telling the court in words of one syllable exactly why you decided to sever contact with your mother and precisely why you do not believe she would be a positive influence on them or their future well-being.

Thanks for the advice BitterAndTwisted.
Firstly, as stated by Somerset, the adjournment was nothing to do with me but with CAFCASS' failure to compile their report.
Secondly, I completely agree with you about focussing on the right things; however this has been going on for over eight months and we have already compiled evidence, written statements, asked for and been given supporting statements from friends and relatives etc. The frustrating thing is the court refused to take or read any of it until CAFCASS had finished their report.

The general consensus seems to be not to try and hide the second child's birth. I won't be able to attend court because the baby will be less than a month old, so I will have to write to the court with the truth and leave it to the judge's discretion. I was reluctant to give the grandmother more reasons to continue the court case or create a new one (she found out lots of information, including that she had a grandson, by searching the Internet and has since found out his DOB and our home adress) but RuthG has said it would all be part of the same case. My partner is a co-respondent so his appearance alone should be acceptable to them.

As for CAFCASS, well it looks like I am going to have to keep trying to get them to interview me and my partner ASAP - and will keep notes of all calls made as suggested. My baby is due in 2 weeks so I'd rather not be conducting a stressful telephone interview, photocopying evidence etc straight after the birth...

Once again thanks to everyone for the advice.

Welshwoofs

rpc wrote: »

But I also cannot see any good reason to compel access, when there has never been any.

Doesn't that rather depend on why there has been no access? For instance, was it because the Grandparents were hitherto not interested or because they were prevented access?

Using the argument that they are strangers because the parent denied access isn't really a fair starting point.

It would be different if there had been access and a relationship that had since been blocked, but that is not the case here.

From what the op says, the only reason the Grandparent didn't have a relationship with the child is because they didn't know there was a child to have a relationship with. The Op said:

"She has somehow found out that I have a young son and is taking me and my partner to court to try and gain contact with him."

So...as soon as this woman found out she had a Grandchild she wanted contact with that Grandchild. Seems like a reasonable desire to me.

As I said, unless there is fear that the child could be harmed through such access, I'm firmly of the belief that no matter what your differences are with your parent you should give them a chance to have a relationship with their own grandchildren.

peachyprice

Welshwoofs wrote: »

Doesn't that rather depend on why there has been no access? For instance, was it because the Grandparents were hitherto not interested or because they were prevented access?

Using the argument that they are strangers because the parent denied access isn't really a fair starting point.

From what the op says, the only reason the Grandparent didn't have a relationship with the child is because they didn't know there was a child to have a relationship with. The Op said:

"She has somehow found out that I have a young son and is taking me and my partner to court to try and gain contact with him."

So...as soon as this woman found out she had a Grandchild she wanted contact with that Grandchild. Seems like a reasonable desire to me.

As I said, unless there is fear that the child could be harmed through such access, I'm firmly of the belief that no matter what your differences are with your parent you should give them a chance to have a relationship with their own grandchildren.

You missed this subsequent post by OP then:

spacegirlfive wrote: »

Of course there are two sides to everything, and I can only put mine across, but in answer to why I'm so anxious not to let my son near her, there's a past history of domestic violence, excessive drinking, short temper, a resentful partner - I could go on. I don't want my son exposed to any of those elements.

BitterAndTwisted

Except in cases where the parent was so disagreeable and their behaviour so unfavourable that their own child withdrew contact perhaps even before they started a family? There are people in this world who are totally unsuitable to be brought into contact with young children. Perhaps this woman was a pernicious influence on her own children and is seeking any way possible to become one in her grandchild's life. Few women choose to refuse to have any contact whatsoever with their own mothers, and I suspect those who do have very good reason for doing it.

As I aid before, this woman does not have a relationship with their grandchild and the child has formed no bond with her, so I can't see a court awarding her contact now, most especially when it is totally against the parents' express wishes.

But I'm not the decision-maker and I have no experience in these things. It's a crying shame that CAFCASS don't seem to have pulled their fingers out so this can be dealt with and got out of the way once and for all.

theoldcynic

Welshwoofs wrote: »

So...as soon as this woman found out she had a Grandchild she wanted contact with that Grandchild. Seems like a reasonable desire to me.

Nonsense how far does this 'reasonable' desire extend to? Aunties, uncles, cousins, second cousins, step families, inlaws? All of whom might have had no contact with the parents/child before? Just because of blood you think someone in the extended family has that right?

What if the mother did not have contact with the parent in over 20 years, you think it's right to allow access to a stranger of the family? To then subject that parent to having to explain why she no longer speaks to her own mother, knows nothing about them and to subject that parent to fear of what may happen week in and week out? How is that beneficial to the child?

I don't see many children damaged from not having contact with their grandparents, in fact many children live quite happily without extended family through moves, being in care, being orphaned, being an only children or death. I have seen many stronger bonds and healthier relationships formed with a child who are the parents friends and supporters than I have with family.

Welshwoofs wrote: »

As I said, unless there is fear that the child could be harmed through such access, I'm firmly of the belief that no matter what your differences are with your parent you should give them a chance to have a relationship with their own grandchildren.

What about whether the parent is being harmed through the grandparent having access to that child? Through stress and worry or flashbacks of what happened to them, a decline in their mental health? A fear that the child will be subjected to the same behaviour they were or used as a weapon or for spite to the parent. Surely that will have an indirect impact on the child too? Does that not count?

What if that parent was unable to speak out as a child about what went on with their parents and is scared that their child will respond in the same way and hold it all in too? What if none of this could be proved in court because by the time the parent had the courage to speak out their own childhood it was too late so their only choice was to cut them out of their lives?

A person does not have to be hit to be harmed, there are a lot of ways a vengeful, spiteful and neglectful grandparent can harm a child and their relationship with their own parents through less obvious and indirect ways.

Not many people decide to completely stop contact with their parents on a whim, it is often a long and fraught decision. In this case it sounds like contact was stopped before the children were conceived it would be hard to prove that this was done out of spite/weapon to the grandparent. Remember that the parent in this case who decided no contact was a child once too.

TBH in this case if it came to it I do wonder in reality how enforceable such an order would be. I'm not sure how imprisoning a loving parent over contact with an estranged grandparent would be seen as in the best interest of the child either.

I wish you all the best OP and that you get the outcome you desire. Please do let us know how you get on, it must be so stressful just before your due date and I hope all goes well with the birth.