Mother from hell now has cancer.....

GotToChange

silvercar wrote: »

A friend, who had the mother from hell, said that her mother's death allowed her to grieve for the mother she should of had as well as the mother she did have. She realised after the mother had died that she had spent too much time on a relationship that was damaging to herself and her children and she should have let go sooner.

I understand this.

Now that she is ill, I have two trains of thought....

I don't feel that her death (God forbid) would actually represent much of a loss to me; each time I am in touch with her - and feel the hate - it is as though I have to get on without her (as I always have done really) and
that in itself is as though a parent has died (but hasn't) - many times over (x 2).

On the other hand though, I thought that I had come close to losing the ability to "bounce back" - and therefore would have to hate her (as I cannot manage indifference) - and I believed that it would be understandable/forgivable. But - now she has cancer - how can I, in all conscience, hate a woman who may be dying - or at the very least, has to go through chemo-/radio-therapy???

Is it perverse to feel not only cheated out of being able to love and care about her - but also to feel denied the chance to - at last - hate, if not her, at least the way she has been towards me???

I am weird, I know.
But am still about to cancel the therapy....
....who needs it when there is such valuable support and insight on here.

(Not that I want to drag you lovely people in forever........:))

missprice

GotToChange wrote: »

it is like going through life with a huge weight on your back that it takes immense effort to heave off.
only if you make it so!!



BBT is The Big Bang Theory
loves this show but am often at work when it is on so am watching the last series and totally nissing this series til it repeated

GotToChange wrote: »

I understand this.

Now that she is ill,
pretty sure we established that she really is not ill. maybe she has a chest infection but thats it


But am still about to cancel the therapy....
....who needs it when there is such valuable support and insight on here.
if you cant afford it then fine, but still 30 years later I am in therapy and I have to pay for it out of a PT wage but its worth every penny. sometimes I go every week, sometimes I can wait 6 months or longer but still I have to go, now thats a sob story:)

(Not that I want to drag you lovely people in forever........:))

I don't think we mind you 'dragging' us in

sassyblue

GotToChange wrote: »

ls - your insights!!!!

Oh the number of emails of my fathers that say plainly that I must "be nice" and variations on the theme, such as:

this email to me at some point last year....

"Quote from an email to my second best friend, David McLachlan, who lives in Spain

"Don't write back right away, as you usually do, as I always feel obligated to answer you and will end up spending all our tme wiriting to each other about nothing.' My point, in case you don't get it, Cxxxxx, is that I do not want to spend all my time on the internet exchanging emails with anyone. I have other projects, other issues, and other problems to occupy my time. Some people send jokes to each other because they have nothing else to do. I, thank God, do have something else to do.

If I buy a property in France, Tristan will run a business from there, which may be horse connected, or may be growing Xmas trees, or may be raising sanglier (wild boar), or may be a bed and breakfast or a comibination of these and other things. I will take a cut of what he makes which will augment my inadequate pension. It is a business investment. OK?"

I know this is totally against the robster advice (i.e. fruther wallowing) - but I want you to know how very clever you are londondsurrey - and how much help you are to this tortured soul.

Robster has some truth in what she's saying, here's my tuppenceworth.....

I co-run a business and don't have time for emailing and phone calls outside work. I come on here in between jobs and it's quiet at the moment, but outside work l have a 5y.o and a house, husband and cat too which takes up alot of time and frankly it's a struggle to keep up with everything.

Just trying to make you see that although your dad is an !!!!, if he runs a business his time will be taken up, and if you do reply to his emails straight away it puts the onus back on him to reply and the cycle goes on... you are quick to reply on here so if you do the same in real life maybe he feels pressured by you? Not knocking you just trying to find an answer.

He should have more time for you in a fatherly way but he doesn't and he won't change.

Your parents have been abysmal to you GTC and l could cry for you but now is the time to ignore them and forge the rest of your life by YOUR rules.

BTW l think you should write a book, what you said about visiting your? horse was beautifully written.

londonsurrey

GotToChange wrote: »

I understand this.

Now that she is ill, I have two trains of thought....

I don't feel that her death (God forbid) would actually represent much of a loss to me; each time I am in touch with her - and feel the hate - it is as though I have to get on without her (as I always have done really) and
that in itself is as though a parent has died (but hasn't) - many times over (x 2).

On the other hand though, I thought that I had come close to losing the ability to "bounce back" - and therefore would have to hate her (as I cannot manage indifference) - and I believed that it would be understandable/forgivable. But - now she has cancer - how can I, in all conscience, hate a woman who may be dying - or at the very least, has to go through chemo-/radio-therapy???

Is it perverse to feel not only cheated out of being able to love and care about her - but also to feel denied the chance to - at last - hate, if not her, at least the way she has been towards me???

I am weird, I know.
But am still about to cancel the therapy....
....who needs it when there is such valuable support and insight on here.

(Not that I want to drag you lovely people in forever........:))

I don't see what real difference her being healthy or dying in physical torment makes, other than she's continuing to do her damage while in good health, or is limited in how much damage she can do because she is dying in physical torment.

Two questions for you:
- do you believe that you can change your mother?

- do you believe that the only way you can get out of this hole is by your family telling you that you were right all these years, that they've wronged you dreadfully for over half a century, and that they now love you?



Cancel the therapy if you wish, but don't do it because of us. I think I can speak for the majority that we would have been appalled if we'd known that that would be the result of us talking to you.

GotToChange

Thank you sassyblue (re. the writing re. (yes, he is) my horse) - and of course for advice.

I have to stress/clarify - he (Father) did not (and does not) at that point run a business , even though he has made it sound so. It was his way of putting me down (poor me, I know....) as he has always done. I think I chose a poor example of an email to post on here as that one - to you goods people - does make it seem that I was pestering a very busy man in some way.

The fact remains that his initial contact with me, which I may quote I think* - was dreadful - and he had NO idea what I was doing at that point in time (just because he classes me as a loser does not mean that I actually am.... and I could [and he knows it, hence his later suggestion that he and I go into business] run a business such as the one he was looking into with his son #2, I just cannot get started - and nor can/could Tristan without paternal input; so the hypocrisy just drips off everything that he does).

He is rising 70 years old (Aug this year) and has made vast sums of money (despite pleading poverty) through property deals in Spain when he lived there; due to unable to (don't know why) gain perm residence in Canada (although Son #1 is well-established there, married/divorced a French Canadian) he and his wife float between Menton in S France and Kent where he has (finally) set Tristan and wife up with an Equestrian Centre. He still maintains (and rents out) a huge property in Quebec (six beds, indoor pool etc etc) to which they will return when it is warmer there and colder in Europe. His main (pre-) oocupation is writing novels - in the style of Ian Fleming but with a lot more s-e-x (or maybe just kinkier than anything 007 got up to).

I love that you/robster are seeing his pov and trying to help me to see reason. I guess I just have a problem when he makes me feel like a pest - and it is so humiliating.

*Now, brace yourself;
From his letter to me after five years of nothing apart from lunch 2003 and "you're on your own" email Dec 2006 - which actually totals not seeing him since G/ma's funeral Jan 2000.

The letter was headed "Somewhere in Canada" *sigh*

".....even as I write I am sure it will not lead to anything, because you won't change and neither will I. It's been said over and over, ad nauseum, but I'll say it again - until you are prepared to bury the past forever, our relationship will go nowhere, or to put it more precisely, our non-relationship will stay just that. Having said this, you do not seem capable of closing the door on the early part of your life, even though your refusal to let it go means that we have no contact with each other.

It may possibly help you to come to terms with the idea of letting bygones be bygones if I say to you , flatly, that I have no feelings of guilt where you or Dxxxx (or Sxxxx, or whatever his name is) are concerned, Regrets, yes, plenty of those, but my only 'wrongdoing' was when having sex with your mother, to fail to take the ususal precautions so that your mother did not get pregnant. I have no defence for this; call it ignorance, inxeperience, stupidity, arrogance, carelessness, whatever you like - but these failings are not something that the perpetrator should have to apologise for nearly 50 years after the event. It was a joint effort and I was not the instigator..... (he goes on to further insult my mother)
.......In my role as a husband I have nothing at all to apologise for. During the three years that your mother an I were together, I worked for two of them in a forge, which at that time, was one of the closest environments to hell...... I did all of this to keep and feed my family....
..... your refusal to accept that my role as a father was blameless and furthermore to appeciate that I did the right thing by your mother and my daughters, is very upsetting to me.
I am not looking for sympathy from you. It grieves me to say it, but you seem to be wholly preoccupied with yourself and you various woes, be they real or imagined, so have none to spare for anyone else. What would be nice is a sympathetic attitude, a suggestion that you are interested in someone beside yourself and, regrettably, that is missing too.
So did I write to you simply to indulge in a character assassination? Not exactly, it just seems to flow naturally when I cast my mind back; I have finally come to the conclusion that nothing I could do would change you and therefore it had to end. You profess to love me and want a relationship with me but the words don't match the deeds, your real self has to surface, no matter what.
I want you to know I have made a provision for you in my will. It will keep you in cigarettes for a few years if nothing else.
Trying to be positive, I have wondered if you and I should take aholiday together, just the two of us. I haven't mentioned this to Pxxxx and am not sure she will support the idea - but let me know what you think.
...I know much of this letter reads as a bit of an attack but I am trying to make you look at the way you behave and figure out what you can do about it. Think long and hard before you reply; if I don't hear from you, I will assume that you have resigned yourself to no relationship with me and don't feel there is any point trying to restart it.
Please reply by email etc etc.
Some kind of love, Dad"


I have edited out some of the nasty stuff about my mother - but this is generally it, although it ran to 2.5 A4 pages.

I cannot imagine anyone else would want to read it but, if anyone does, please tell me quite how the person who writes this could actually BE a (my?) father - esp. given that most of that came out of the blue at me; he had heard NOTHING from me (because I didn't even know where he was/was afraid of his rejection of me) for years - and this is what he writes to me to "open negotiations" - ha!

On the other hand, maybe I am too sensitive and his is quite commonplace; I really have no frame of reference - apart from my own rose-tinted ideas, which I know are unrealistic.

GotToChange

londonsurrey wrote: »

I don't see what real difference her being healthy or dying in physical torment makes, other than she's continuing to do her damage while in good health, or is limited in how much damage she can do because she is dying in physical torment.

Two questions for you:
- do you believe that you can change your mother?

- do you believe that the only way you can get out of this hole is by your family telling you that you were right all these years, that they've wronged you dreadfully for over half a century, and that they now love you?



Cancel the therapy if you wish, but don't do it because of us. I think I can speak for the majority that we would have been appalled if we'd known that that would be the result of us talking to you.

ls - so wise.

No, I guess I don;t think I can change my mother - or, more importantly, how she sees me, It is carved in stone and I am held up against impossible standards (both sisters) that I wouldn't be able to meet, even if I wanted to (I am not starting to play darts!)

And of course, hoping for any kind of "admission" on their parts (see Pa's ltr....) is futile p- and even if I could "extract" it (not that I want to) would be as pointless as a forced apology.

Even though nobody seems to believe that it is what I want(ed), I just hoped that I could have a relationship with them that reflected the people that we are - without me turning myself inside out to be accepted or acceptable. I am still - and will remain - unlcear about why I, as a person, am so repellent.

I quote myself here (from one of the emails that I sent during the time my father was insiting that I "explain myself" ..... which followed on from the above ltr);
"We don't have to actually talk about the elephant in the room, but just accept that there is one and take it from there."
That snippet of wisdom didn't cut any ice either.
Ho hum

As for therapy, I am simply going to try and figure out if CBT is the one for me (the therapist gives off every vibe that he doesn't think it is - and I didn't ask for CBT, just "help"). He had me blurt out some of my family background (and believe me, if I was a good enough liar I would make up a different one to prevent the sight of people's eyes glazing over) but now insists that I cannot talk about it.... I would never assign responsibility for quitting it to good people on a forum. Not at all.

GotToChange

Just two points:

I know that I am responding quickly - and that gives off a sense of someone who is wallowing or has nothing "better" to do. That's not the case - well, maybe a bit of wallowing which could = giving something the attention it warrants and apprecaiting every word that anybody writes to help/question me or make me think about the best way to get over/past it all.

Secondly, although "ignoring" them is good advice - it is kind of impossible to ignore or walk away from people who are flat out running in the opposite direction.

missprice

GotToChange wrote: »

".....even as I write I am sure it will not lead to anything, because you won't change and neither will I. It's been said over and over, ad nauseum, but I'll say it again - until you are prepared to bury the past forever, our relationship will go nowhere, or to put it more precisely, our non-relationship will stay just that. Having said this, you do not seem capable of closing the door on the early part of your life, even though your refusal to let it go means that we have no contact with each other.
he has made it plain, it matters not why but the gist is toleave him alone until you can not mention 'the past'

It may possibly help you to come to terms with the idea of letting bygones be bygones if I say to you , flatly, that I have no feelings of guilt where you or Dxxxx (or Sxxxx, or whatever his name is) are concerned, Regrets, yes, plenty of those, but my only 'wrongdoing' was when having sex with your mother, to fail to take the ususal precautions so that your mother did not get pregnant. I have no defence for this; call it ignorance, inxeperience, stupidity, arrogance, carelessness, whatever you like - but these failings are not something that the perpetrator should have to apologise for nearly 50 years after the event. It was a joint effort and I was not the instigator..... (he goes on to further insult my mother)
even you insult your mother (with good reason) why can the man once married to her not do so?
.......In my role as a husband I have nothing at all to apologise for. During the three years that your mother an I were together, I worked for two of them in a forge, which at that time, was one of the closest environments to hell...... I did all of this to keep and feed my family....
back then that is all that men did they went to work to provide money. he is old skool and cant be blamed for a generational thing
..... your refusal to accept that my role as a father was blameless and furthermore to appeciate that I did the right thing by your mother and my daughters, is very upsetting to me.
I am not looking for sympathy from you. It grieves me to say it, but you seem to be wholly preoccupied with yourself and you various woes, be they real or imagined, so have none to spare for anyone else. What would be nice is a sympathetic attitude, a suggestion that you are interested in someone beside yourself and, regrettably, that is missing too.
this bit is mean after all we are all to some extent self absorbed
So did I write to you simply to indulge in a character assassination? Not exactly, it just seems to flow naturally when I cast my mind back; I have finally come to the conclusion that nothing I could do would change you and therefore it had to end. You profess to love me and want a relationship with me but the words don't match the deeds, your real self has to surface, no matter what.
I want you to know I have made a provision for you in my will. It will keep you in cigarettes for a few years if nothing else.
if you ever bother to contact him again ask for a copy of the will:rotfl:
Trying to be positive, I have wondered if you and I should take aholiday together, just the two of us. I haven't mentioned this to Pxxxx and am not sure she will support the idea - but let me know what you think.
...I know much of this letter reads as a bit of an attack but I am trying to make you look at the way you behave and figure out what you can do about it. Think long and hard before you reply; if I don't hear from you, I will assume that you have resigned yourself to no relationship with me and don't feel there is any point trying to restart it.
Please reply by email etc etc.
Some kind of love, Dad"


I have edited out some of the nasty stuff about my mother - but this is generally it, although it ran to 2.5 A4 pages.

I cannot imagine anyone else would want to read it but, if anyone does, please tell me quite how the person who writes this could actually BE a (my?) father - esp. given that most of that came out of the blue at me; he had heard NOTHING from me (because I didn't even know where he was/was afraid of his rejection of me) for years - and this is what he writes to me to "open negotiations" - ha!

On the other hand, maybe I am too sensitive and his is quite commonplace; I really have no frame of reference - apart from my own rose-tinted ideas, which I know are unrealistic.

I reckon your a wee bit sensitive although this is no fault.
what is it that you want from him though?
there is more in that letter than you have put up so I cant comment too much but at least he bothered to write 2.5 A4 pages, from my birth father I have never even had a birthday card and I met him when I was 15 and trying so desperately to leave home(hoping he would help) so a long letter from him despite saying mean things 'to open negotiations' would have been a start.

GotToChange

missprice wrote: »

I reckon your a wee bit sensitive although this is no fault.
what is it that you want from him though?
there is more in that letter than you have put up so I cant comment too much but at least he bothered to write 2.5 A4 pages, from my birth father I have never even had a birthday card and I met him when I was 15 and trying so desperately to leave home(hoping he would help) so a long letter from him despite saying mean things 'to open negotiations' would have been a start.

I take your point - BUT -
the whole "at least he bothered...." just buys into my whole, well, kick me, I don't mind, just do something "(which is not right). I can't see past the nastiness, which is probably wrong of me.... if you had a father like this one, you may wish you had never been contacted.

My sister is in the position you were in; the one and only time she met up with him (as a vulnerable teenage - as were you, I'm sure), she said something which ended "....next time". He sneered back, " I wasn't aware there was going to be a next time." My sister's heart and mind shut down with regard to him on that day - she is far more able to do that kind of thing than I am (and she didn't have to have him in her life like it or not, the way that I did).

Although I have been harsh about my mother, I am not too sure that I have insulted her on here - but for full disclosure - from his letter;

"....it was a joint effort, and I was not the instigator. I should also tell you that when your mother and I first had sex, I was a virgin, she wasn't. None of that is an excuse, but nor is it a crime that I must pay for until I die. And although my parents were against my marrying your mother, and tried to talk me out of it, I felt that this would have been cowardly and dishonourable, and I have always been strong on honour.
....I did all this to keep and feed my family. And during some of this time at least, your mother was having it off with all and sundry. It was only when I dsocovered as much that I left her. When I also discovered that she was neglecting you and D, I applied for custody of you, and got it."

As I have written that - and of course, re-read the letter, I feel that there is some awful overuse of the phrase "your mother" - not once does he use her real name or replace "your mother" woth her/he, even though he is a grammar pedant. An analyst would probably suggest that he wants to assocoaite her with me, not himself, thus never calling her his wife, just "your mother".

And of course, imagine how this impacts (or not) on my elationshipwith my mother; not that I believe 100% what he says - and nor do I care at this point in time. But with her saying that she preventing him beating me as a baby. him (and my G/ma) saying that she left us alone all night at ages just +2 and <1 - and that my sister does have scars on her legs from urine burns and I have scar on my neck from some unknown cause - well, who is to know?

For someone who accuses me of dredging up the past, was that not precisely what he was doing - and for no good purpose - not to work through it, understand or have me understand. It was just rotten, put down after putdown - with no basis or reasoning for having written it after so many years of nothing.

I did not reveal to my mother what he had written, altough I tried to talk to her about the fact that he had written at all. That did not work too well; in the end, after the verbal of Jan/Feb, I sent her the letter - and (apart from the insults about herself, which she denies and I don't believe anyway), she actually agreed with him.
So, there's no hope.

sassyblue

Replying in red again...

ls - so wise.

No, I guess I don;t think I can change my mother - or, more importantly, how she sees me, It is carved in stone and I am held up against impossible standards (both sisters) that I wouldn't be able to meet, even if I wanted to (I am not starting to play darts!) For the best l suppose, you might decide you're a lesbian too

And of course, hoping for any kind of "admission" on their parts (see Pa's ltr....) is futile p- and even if I could "extract" it (not that I want to) would be as pointless as a forced apology.

Even though nobody seems to believe that it is what I want(ed), I just hoped that I could have a relationship with them that reflected the people that we are - without me turning myself inside out to be accepted or acceptable. I am still - and will remain - unlcear about why I, as a person, am so repellent. You are NOT repellent, as l said earlier l think they are toxic and are unable to forge positive relationships. Ok, so your dad is in business with a half brother, you don't know whether they get on? For all you know he is an !!!! to him and tells your brother about you and your lovely horses? I think they play everyone off against each other.....

I quote myself here (from one of the emails that I sent during the time my father was insiting that I "explain myself" ..... which followed on from the above ltr);
"We don't have to actually talk about the elephant in the room, but just accept that there is one and take it from there."
That snippet of wisdom didn't cut any ice either.
Ho hum He doesn't want to talk about it for whatever reason - could be guilt - even though he wouldn't admit it, but then you said it'll always be there and 'take it from there' implies again you hope to talk about it at a later date....?

As for therapy, I am simply going to try and figure out if CBT is the one for me (the therapist gives off every vibe that he doesn't think it is - and I didn't ask for CBT, just "help"). He had me blurt out some of my family background (and believe me, if I was a good enough liar I would make up a different one to prevent the sight of people's eyes glazing over) but now insists that I cannot talk about it.... I would never assign responsibility for quitting it to good people on a forum. Not at all.

I reiterate again, your parents are terrible to you, but when you do have contact with your dad have you always asked about your past? I'm not knocking you - you have a right to - but it does annoy him for whatever reason.