Attitude of SOME people (cleaners) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Azari

spadoosh wrote: »

I do take ownership in going to uni i dont see how im not?!? however throughout my education it was constantly repeated that to succeed in life you needed a degree. I know i almost certainly made the wrong decision but struggle to see what can be done now?! Im not solely blaming the government but the ethos in this country at the moment is that success is based on financial power, this is something i wholeheartedly disagree with.

My parents are from a poor background and obviously the thought of their child going to university was seen as a good thing. About 70% of my year group went to university and being in the 'bright' group i think it was always going to happen. Again all of my close friends went to university and any advice i was ever given was essentially that i would be doomed to failure if i didnt go to uni.

Ive got no hold ups about it, im not annoyed or bitter i went (hell it was a v good time!) just a firm believer that not everyone should go to uni and you certainly dont need a degree to be a success.

The problem is that degrees are now completely devalued.

Up until the sixties only a very small percentage of people had degrees and only a very small percentage of jobs required them. It was worth it both for society and the individual to spend the time and money. Society because it got people educated to the standard it needed for certain positions it needed to be filled and for the individual because it meant that sacrificing three years of earning potential gave them access to better paying jobs.

But now, so many people have degrees that that are almost completely devalued. Companies demand them for jobs for which they are not needed and both society and the individual are spending a fortune to get pieces of paper that are all but worthless.

It would be far better to raise the status of carefully constructed vocational qualifications and abandon this ridiculous system of forcing people to waste time and money in acquiring something that is only of use because so many other people have been conned into wasting time and money to get the same thing.

[Deleted User]

LouLou wrote: »

I was sympathising with you all the way until you said that.

Do you think these people are knuckledragging morons who are somehow beneath you? Wouldn't that apply to factory workers too, based on that assumption?

I hope you didn't convey these opinions to them, because if you did, it's not going to exactly inspire confidence or enthusiasm from an employee.

And yes, what others are saying, it appears these cleaners don't really *need* the job if they can be so lax about their timekeeping/attendance. There ARE people who will work hard and work reliably. Maybe you've just been unlucky (employer attitude notwithstanding).

You misunderstand me. I was referring to people who moan about they're current situation, and also refuse to do a job properly. A far cry from someone who works hard.

And, yes, people like this (the ones who wont do a proper job) are beneath me because they are lazy.

I dont agree with Spadoosh. Seems weird getting a degree in accountancy and then doing a minimum wage job. But if he/she wants to do that, and does it properly then fair does.

[Deleted User]

spadoosh wrote: »

I do take ownership in going to uni i dont see how im not?!? however throughout my education it was constantly repeated that to succeed in life you needed a degree. I know i almost certainly made the wrong decision but struggle to see what can be done now?! Im not solely blaming the government but the ethos in this country at the moment is that success is based on financial power, this is something i wholeheartedly disagree with.

My parents are from a poor background and obviously the thought of their child going to university was seen as a good thing. About 70% of my year group went to university and being in the 'bright' group i think it was always going to happen. Again all of my close friends went to university and any advice i was ever given was essentially that i would be doomed to failure if i didnt go to uni.

Ive got no hold ups about it, im not annoyed or bitter i went (hell it was a v good time!) just a firm believer that not everyone should go to uni and you certainly dont need a degree to be a success.

But you've got a good degree that can get you a meaningful job? I dont understand that. Even if you now decide you dont want to do accountancy surely it;ll get you on the road to something else?

But, hey, fair enough to you. Its your choice and I guess if you're happy with it then thats all that matters.

I do think you need to chill a bit though about other people

spadoosh

[quote=[Deleted User];52693125]But you've got a good degree that can get you a meaningful job? I dont understand that. Even if you now decide you dont want to do accountancy surely it;ll get you on the road to something else?

But, hey, fair enough to you. Its your choice and I guess if you're happy with it then thats all that matters.

I do think you need to chill a bit though about other people [/QUOTE]

C'mon, i think my reaction to the original post was perfectly acceptable and so far havent managed to slate anyone.

There you go again, i do have meaningful jobs. I do the accounts admin for a small care organisation (owned by my mother hence the low pay) and occasionally do visits. And work for a retailer, yes it might not be a prestigious job or highly valued job but just as important as any other job. If you dont have the people at the bottom you dont have anyone at the top.

I dont measure success on status. I measure success on happiness and morales. Its definatley against the grain but i don't think its wrong. We live in a society of one up manship and your posts prove this by you valuing your job over a cleaner when theres every chance a cleaner could be equally as good a person as you or anyone else.

Everyone in society is valuable but we seem to think some are more valuable than others when its simply not the case. In my work there are carers who do 60 hrs a week volunteering 20 hours of their time, they are on minimmum wage and can struggle to pay the bills month in month out. They do this out of enjoyment or they feel obliged to look after the vulnerable, yet there are plastic surgeons (the vanity ones not neccessarily the reconstructive ones) for example(who contribute soo little to society its almost sickening) who earn £100k+ who are seen as more successful. Thats not right!

LouLou

[quote=[Deleted User];52693075]You misunderstand me. I was referring to people who moan about they're current situation, and also refuse to do a job properly. A far cry from someone who works hard.

And, yes, people like this (the ones who wont do a proper job) are beneath me because they are lazy.

I dont agree with Spadoosh. Seems weird getting a degree in accountancy and then doing a minimum wage job. But if he/she wants to do that, and does it properly then fair does..[/QUOTE]

[quote=[Deleted User];52693075]OK so you're stuck doing a cleaning job but if you cant even do that properly then you aint going to get anything better.[/QUOTE]
Maybe I am misunderstanding you, but saying there's "nothing better" than cleaning if they're not up to doing it properly/not turning up/having an attitude implies that you think cleaners are of sub-level intelligence and are in with the bean counters and sh*t shovellers of the world.

I get that you are rightly annoyed with people who don't show the ability to graft, do a good job and take pride in themselves. But I can't detect anything but prejudice, even snobbery, in that comment.

LouLou

Also, some people do menial jobs because of time restraints, particularly if you're a mum, mental health problems (I've struggled with depression/agoraphobia/panic disorder which made me abandon my studies). Could even be the opportunities just aren't out there on the career path they really want.

It's not as simple as being "lazy" or "stupid"..scratch the surface and people could tell stories that may surprise you.

[Deleted User]

spadoosh wrote: »

C'mon, i think my reaction to the original post was perfectly acceptable and so far havent managed to slate anyone.

Well you did a bit....

'Ever considered they have a !!!!!! employer?!?!'
'Then you get bell ends coming on MSE'

[Deleted User]

LouLou wrote: »

Maybe I am misunderstanding you, but saying there's "nothing better" than cleaning if they're not up to doing it properly/not turning up/having an attitude implies that you think cleaners are of sub-level intelligence and are in with the bean counters and sh*t shovellers of the world.

I get that you are rightly annoyed with people who don't show the ability to graft, do a good job and take pride in themselves. But I can't detect anything but prejudice, even snobbery, in that comment.

Not at all. I'm just saying that if you don't like being a cleaner do something about it. Its all relative. For instance, I sit in an office all day - to someone else 'something better' might be doing a job where you're outside in the fresh air even if it is less pay.

However, I'm pointing out that if you're not willing to give your best in the position that you find yourself in (i.e. cleaner), you don't have the right attitude to get a different job. And nor do you deserve to.

LouLou

It is very unprofessional to tell your employer what you *really* think..which is why so many end up with a P45 after posting on Facebook.

Even if you're having a bad day and can't face it, unless you're best buddies and can confess anything to your employer, best to keep it to yourself. I'd never dream of moaning at the boss.

[Deleted User]

LouLou wrote: »

Also, some people do menial jobs because of time restraints, particularly if you're a mum, mental health problems (I've struggled with depression/agoraphobia/panic disorder which made me abandon my studies). Could even be the opportunities just aren't out there on the career path they really want.

It's not as simple as being "lazy" or "stupid"..scratch the surface and people could tell stories that may surprise you.

LouLou - I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. Yes, there are people in low paid jobs most of whom work very hard. Also, a lot of people who are not in the position as you rightly state to do something else. For instance, someone who cares for an elderly relative for example is a better person than me.

I dont have an issue with this. I just have an issue with people (like those two cleaners I had) who aren't willing to do a low paid job properly.