How have I upset my friend?

londonsurrey

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

Surely in Italian it's lat-tay - ie short a?

You're probably right. My pronunciation, even in English can be erm, surprising at the best of times.

When I was haltingly trying to communicate with the natives in Italy, I added insult to injury by unknowingly merrily mixing random Spanish words. They were very polite about it, though.

Seanymph

ah bless you. I'd be your friend

I only drink coffee on holiday - so not only do I have name issues generally I have language issues to. Tea just isn't the same abroad.

I wonder if because you are so competent and supporting she feels a bit like the 'poor relation' in the friendship, and that CAN cause resentment and that can build.

Not that you deserve that, you see yourself as supportive and giving - she may feel that it puts her down somehow. And this was a rare chance to see you floundering a bit which rocked the normal status quo.

As for etiquette - don't worry for a second, what a useless waitress - they need more customer training there obviously.

I wouldn't however let it 'blow over'. You are far too nice for your own good, and I would I'm afraid not want to be made to feel so awful by someone I considered myself close to.

jetplane

Were any of the home truths about money? You give 3 examples about how you have been a good friend and they are all about money. The next time you see her after years and must have a hundred things to catch up on and you mention the price of a coffee. I agree with her that you could have got any drink but she probably thought you were just too tight to pay 1.99.

I agree the selection of coffees is mindboggling, I have bought coffees myself and sat down and had no idea what I was drinking, but a small white normal coffee would have got you something to drink even if it was expensive it was a treat.

I have good friends but would never describe my friendships in monetary terms.

thorsoak

xxdeebeexx wrote: »

This week I went out with a friend I have known for 34 years. We haven't been out together for a number of years as I care for my elderly parents and have children.

We were having a lovely time, or so I thought.
We went into a cafe for lunch.... my treat.
My friend wanted a sandwich and a cup of tea, I wanted a wrap and a cup of coffee.

The assistant asked me what coffee I wanted, so I replied "Just an Ordinary white please". She repeated the question and I repeated the answer. She wanted to know which coffeee i wanted and I hadn't got a clue about the fancy names! So she asked if I wanted large or small coffeee.
In the end I left the coffee and just paid for the sandwich, tea and wrap using luncheon vouchers.

When I sat next to my friend I remarked that £1.99 for a small coffee was expensive.

Any how, having talked on the phone later in the week it seems that this incident has ofended my friend!
She claims that I should have just had any drink...... as it was about "Sharing the experience together!"
She went on to say that she felt really sorry for me because I was out of my depth and clearly hadn't been out for a coffeee for at least 10 years!
She then went on to put me straight and tell me a few "home truths" She was very unkind and quite spiteful.

I am completely lost about the significance of the coffee.
I have been a good friend to this lady over the years. I have leant her money. Sent a large tesco shop when she was short of money and allowed her to reverse the charges so that she could speak to me on the phone when she was down.

What have I done wrong?

dx

PS I know I should be asking her but I don't want any more 'home truths' as I'm still reeling from the last onslaught!

You say that you haven't been out together for years ....obviously in those years your friend has changed - and you haven't. Maybe its time to call a halt to this friendship - it would seem that your friend now has different ideals and goals than you do.

It happens. Don't fret too much about it - be grateful for the good years of your friendship - just let it go now.

lostinrates

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

Surely in Italian it's lat-tay - ie short a?

Actually I've just listened to it on Google translate, and it's a sort of intermediate a there, not a long 'ar / ah' sound.

But frankly, anyone working in a cafe would an ounce of intelligence would go for 'black or white, hot milk or cold' if you looked bemused. And not care whether you said laaah-tay or lattay? MIL asks for a lahtea and gets what she expects.

Going for a sarnie and a coffee with an italian dh ipn a slightly grumpy mood i can assure you that very few places get the italian right....and in a good mood he agrees.....it doesn't matter. ( just don't get him started on the horror of 'a panini'...incidentally, when i was living in milan getting 'a sandwich ' in englsh was all the rage:rotfl:'

Op, for furture record if i wanted an ordinary coffee, like i might make at home in a french press cafetiere or wirh instant (shhhh) i would have an Americano with milk. Latte is creamier, milkier, heavier.


It doesn't matter you don't know what coffee is what, a friend doing their job would help you. I assure you some people who know what they are ordering aren't saying it correctly. Its about a nice drink and tine with friend, not about out doing each other in coffee lingo and incorrect terms and pronounciations now accepted as correct.


I would put it out of you mind, and have a cuppa.

Teenie_D

xxdeebeexx wrote: »

Any how, having talked on the phone later in the week it seems that this incident has ofended my friend!
She claims that I should have just had any drink...... as it was about "Sharing the experience together!"
She went on to say that she felt really sorry for me because I was out of my depth and clearly hadn't been out for a coffeee for at least 10 years!
She then went on to put me straight and tell me a few "home truths" She was very unkind and quite spiteful.

I am completely lost about the significance of the coffee.
I have been a good friend to this lady over the years. I have leant her money. Sent a large tesco shop when she was short of money and allowed her to reverse the charges so that she could speak to me on the phone when she was down.

runningwoman wrote: »

Ok. Point of etiquette. If you're treating someone to lunch, you DON'T mention the cost in front of them. Choose somewhere reasonably priced or go somewhere else, tell them to pick what they want, make sure they aren't hesitating in getting what they want, then pick up the bill, don't moan about it. Doesn't matter how you pay it - vouchers are cool - but they shouldn't be made to feel -directly or indirectly - they've ordered more than you are willing to pay for.

I think you DID put your friend in an awkward situation by making a thing about the price of the coffee. Regardless of your personal feelings about it, I actually would have felt uncomfortable about sitting there drinking tea (which presumably would have cost close to £1.99) when you had made a point about NOT getting a drink yourself because it was too expensive. It's like - "great, so I'm sitting here feeling like some extravagant scrounger at your expense? I'd rather have skipped this interaction and had air pie"

Treating someone should be a gracious gesture doing something you enjoy, not be an exercise in "well this is terribly wasteful and not really worth it really".

I agree with the above, I would be mortified if someone invited me out to lunch then complained about the price of something, it wouldn't bother me in the slightest if we were paying our own but it would make me feel very uncomfortable if the person I was with was paying and I certainly wouldn't enjoy what I was eating/drinking myself.

Saying that I wouldn't then go on about it and make a big thing about it afterwards (I would also pay my own way the next time! ). I wondered as soon as I read your post if your friend feels guilty about the times she has taken money off of you and has dealt with the guilt/embarrassment by being angry at you, especially as it has appeared to her possibly, that you are a bit short yourself (the coffee situation, paying my luncheon vouchers, not that there is anything wrong with them, i have used enough of them myself )?

There are a few reasons that could have caused her outburst and it depends on what the home truths were, maybe there have been little instances such as this over the months/years and this was the final thing, due to her embarrassment, that caused her outburst?

I do think your friend has been unfair though, if my friend didn't know the name of something I would help her out and we would no doubt laugh about it, it wouldn't become the big deal your friend has made it (which makes me think there is an underlying cause). I would ask her what her issue is, hopefully you can sort it out but tbh it sounds like it would be her loss if this caused a rift in your friendship.

Craftyscholar

Only your friend knows what was going through her mind, but my thoughts -
I have had the same conversation the first time I bumped into the 'new' coffee sellers. Fortunately a street kiosk, I was on my own and the girl gave me an americano and told me what to ask for in the future.
However - this was several years ago. I now order my 'tall filter, space for milk, sitting in' as fluently as anyone.

So two thoughts
You care for your parents and your children, have helped and supported her over the years. Maybe in her mind you are the capable organised one who always knows what to do and she couldn't cope with seeing you 'thrown'.

Realising you were so unfamiliar with a situation just about everyone else (even old biddies like me) takes for granted suggested that you really do not get opportunities to have a 'coffee and catch-up' with friends. Which made her feel guilty about not being in touch. She couldn't cope with feeling guilty and ended up lashing out.

I have a friendship in which I was the 'weaker' one and it hit a bad patch when I failed to offer support I didn't realise was needed.
It is difficult to deal with changes in a relationship which has been part of your life for so many years.

geri1965_2

OP, I would just get rid of her. I would not put up with friends talking to me like that.

Hermia

runningwoman wrote: »

Ok. Point of etiquette. If you're treating someone to lunch, you DON'T mention the cost in front of them. Choose somewhere reasonably priced or go somewhere else, tell them to pick what they want, make sure they aren't hesitating in getting what they want, then pick up the bill, don't moan about it. Doesn't matter how you pay it - vouchers are cool - but they shouldn't be made to feel -directly or indirectly - they've ordered more than you are willing to pay for.

I think you DID put your friend in an awkward situation by making a thing about the price of the coffee. Regardless of your personal feelings about it, I actually would have felt uncomfortable about sitting there drinking tea (which presumably would have cost close to £1.99) when you had made a point about NOT getting a drink yourself because it was too expensive. It's like - "great, so I'm sitting here feeling like some extravagant scrounger at your expense? I'd rather have skipped this interaction and had air pie"

Treating someone should be a gracious gesture doing something you enjoy, not be an exercise in "well this is terribly wasteful and not really worth it really".

I wonder if it was to do with something like that. I have been in situations where someone has gone on about the price of everything (even in cheap cafes) and you end up feeling bad. I either end up feeling bad that they are worried about the price or end up feeling like they are criticising my lifestyle. I have one friend who always has to comment about what a rip off the cost is wherever we go and it always spoils a treat. I am certainly not saying you are like this, but I just wonder if she saw your comment about the price of the coffee as a criticism that spoiled her lunch.

The rest of her criticisms sound like there is something behind it. She has either being storing up frustrations re: your relationship or she has something going on in her life that is making her short-tempered. If you want to remain friends I would have a chat about it when you are both feeling a bit calmer.

I never know the correct names of coffees either. I always make a right idiot of myself. They hate me in my local Starbucks because I say small, medium or large when ordering!

Iris_Blue

Hermia wrote: »

The rest of her criticisms sound like there is something behind it. She has either being storing up frustrations re: your relationship or she has something going on in her life that is making her short-tempered. If you want to remain friends I would have a chat about it when you are both feeling a bit calmer.

I agree that I think there is something else behind it.

When I read your initial post about your conversation with the waitress I automatically thought of my mums friend who would do anything for my Mum but in all honesty is a nightmare of a person/ friend who complains at every opportunity and moans about everything in her life. Mainly her husband leaving her over 5 years ago!

I did wonder whether more conversation had taken place with the waitress than you have told us. She asked small or large and then you decided not to have one.

Has your friend ever told you that you have been rude in public before ? (I know my mums friend doesn't really know how bad she actually is ) You haven't seen her for a while and there is a reason for this, it's not because you are both so busy because you make time for friends. I think the icing on the cake for your friend was the coffee incident. Maybe your friendship has run its time, maybe not.

I'm not saying that you are a bad person though at all, please don't think that Dee. It was the first thing that came into my head when reading it and I know it's a different angle for you to consider. Only you and her truly know your friendship, you've only told us a snippet of what has happened.

I hope you sort things out.

Edit : The fact that you didn't order coffee because of the price ( you and the waitress had got over the name of the coffee by now ) and then you paid in LV's probably made your friend uncomfortable too as she would be drinking and eating and would feel like you couldn't afford it. I know my friends don't like money saving like that, not everyone is like us.